See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: LeonieWatson
JB: zakim, take up agendum
... John will send his response to Jonas tonight. Next, Janina and John need to co-ordinate to talke through a response to Matt, which Janina will write?
JB: If you guys could get going tomorrow that would be helpful.
JF: Let's do 11.30 tomorrow?
JS: Yes. Could throw in some media stuff as well.
JB: Issue is that we had a
prepared response from Josh, feedback from Laura including two
... Janina was going to review, and Lynne was going to look at the use cases.
JS: Yes, was going to compare against the chair's response.
JB: What's your timeline?
JS: Can do it for Tuesday, not sure about Monday.
JB: Wonder if there is a way to review this with Josh before then? Otherwise could run up against TPAC.
JS: Perhaps TPAC would give us a good opportunity to look at this?
JB: I think it would be a mistake not to move forward with things before then.
JS: The review needs a little care to make sure it addresses all the arguments from the chairs.
JF: This may not be an issue.
Need to look into it.
... Really would like to talk to Steve and Tab about this.
<Judy> [john, janina, leonie, sub-team discussion on generated content]
JB: What's the time frame for that conversation?
JF: It's been busy here,
difficult to say.
... My instinct says there's something we need to look into here, but I'd like to be sure.
... Example is a background image added through scripting to identify a file format type in a link. To me, that's important information.
... I believe that could be a problem, but I'm not sure.
JS: It's something PF has discussed before.
JF: Tab says generated content
should be exposed to the DOM and available to ATs.
... That's ok, but let's look at another use case. A form with required fields. There are programmatic techniques such as ARIA, but a visual indicator is also needed. If the same CSS selectors were used, that information would not be acknowledged by ATs.
JS: Would depend on the AT. You do need to know that a field is required.
LW: We've experienced situations like this recently. Think the issue is worth exploring.
JB: Sounds like focus will be after longdesc and the response to Matt, and after the media check John?
JB: You can kick this off in the next week John?
JF: In the next couple of weeks. Think TPAC may be a good opportunity to talk.
JB: This came up from the TF telecon last week.
JF: Think we can close this by
addressing each point.
... Point 5 has been overtaken by other stuff.
... Point 4 is addressed in Steve's document.
... Point 3 is being dealt with.
... With a little more time and research the rest of the points could also be addressed in similar ways.
JS: Best way to close this is with pointers to the duplicates and other information.
JF: Suggest push back to the bug triage team or ask someone else.
JS: Suggest Laura perhaps?
... Happy to contact Laura to ask.
JS: I didn't see any categorical
statement that said it isn't cool to have an image without an
... Seems to me we might want to say that.
JF: My understanding is that the metadata string in the header makes images without alt conforming.
JS: What I'm missing is the
categorical statement that images must have alts.
... Metadata enables a dodge of this. We shouldn't condone a dodge.
JF: What's important is that
images must have an alternative. How we provide that is a
... We need to say that all images, unless otherwise specified for a good reason, must have alternative text descriptions.
JS: I can go with that.
JF: You're suggesting a single sentence or statement?
JS: Yes. I'm nervous about not
having this statement included.
... otherwise this is a great response, it's all good.
JF: A summary would be a useful addition. It might also be a good place to include Janina's statement. Perhaps we could ask Steve to do this? The rest of the change request is very well drafted.
JS: What's the best way to follow
up on this?
... I could take a look at the summary.
JB: There are a few things: The summary, couple of sentences to introduce the rationale, and a review of the flow of some of the content.
JS: I can take a run at this. My
instinct is that it wouldn't take too long.
... Not sure I agree with the negative effect. Anyone else?
JF: I tend to agree. It's the Flikr use case. What to we do when someone uploads 200 pictures? We don't have an answer. I think Steve is saying that by insisting alt is provided, we're going to find a problem.
JB: Think this is a minor
negative effect, and that should be stated. Metadata generator
shouldn't be a get out clause though.
... Propose that Janina offers her thoughts on the negative impact and let's bring it back to the reading attention of this group as well.
... I think we should look at the conformance class change section.
JF: Rich might be the best person to look at this?
JB: Couldn't one of us articulate it?
JB: We had feedback from
attendees that this time might work.
... Joshu, Laura and others have said this time would be difficult.
<Judy> judy welcomes feedback from others not here today about this time-slot, in case we need to change off of mondays
JF: Any chance of pushing it later on a Tuesday?
JB: That would be tricky for UK and CET folks.
JF: What about 2pm Boston (7pm GMT) or 11am my time?
JB: Will wait for feedback from others. Next week I think we'll keep it at this time.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/UK/UK and CET/ Found Scribe: LeonieWatson Inferring ScribeNick: LeonieWatson Default Present: Judy, John_Foliot, Janina, Leonie Present: Judy John_Foliot Janina Leonie WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting Got date from IRC log name: 04 Oct 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/10/04-text-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]