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<shepazu> trackbot, start telcon
<trackbot> Date: 20 September 2011
<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB
<scribe> Scribe: Art
Date: 20 September 2011
<scribe> Meeting: Web Events WG Voice Conference
<smaug> ted_: are you [Mozilla] ?
<ted_> uh, probably?
<ted_> i dialed in from our asterix
<smaug> or did mbrubeck call in?
<ted_> Zakim: [Mozilla] is Ted_Mielczarek
<ted_> Zakim: nick ted_ is Ted_Mielczarek
<ted_> Zakim nick ted_ is Ted_Mielczarek
<ted_> mbrubeck: figures
AB: yesterday I submitted a draft agenda to the list <>. Any change requests?
AB: any short announcements today?
AB: the TE LC is http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-Touch-Events-20110913/
... have the Editors decided on a LC Comment tracking document? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0058.html
AB: have the Editors decided on a
LC Comment tracking document?
... has there been any feedback from the Webkit community on Issue-19 http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/19 "Align initTouchEvent parameters with Webkit"?
DS: Laszlo sent an email
AB: does anyone know if there were any responses?
… let's continue. I'll ask Laszlo
AB: we received some LC comments
from Anne van Kestern on 13-Sep-2011
... are there some issues we should discuss?
MB: yes, we should open an issue for AvK's comments
… I also got some related feedback from Mozilla
… there is a general precedence for dictionary use
… rather than long lists
DS: but we specified what exists today
MB: well, almost
… but we also have Issue-19
DS: I think the constructor is a good way forward
… I tried to do that for D3E but couldn't get support for it
… However, I don't think it reflects reality today
… The question is if we want the spec to wait for a larger number of impls to follow that
… or do we specify what has already been deployed
… I think the later
MB: agree v1 should be what we want today
… but we want to get alignment
… Laszlo hasn't been able to get anyone to comment on his patch
… So we don't know if Webkit is going to change their impl to match our spec
MB: there is an issue about what to do for v2
… WK has 2 additional params
… they don't cause a prob for v1 since they trail
… but it could get ugly when people want to extend it
OP: we need to have a way to initialize the event
… needed for testing
… could rely on DOM4
<mbrubeck> http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/20 makes this a problem again for Touch Events v2
… but that could create a reference dependency that would be an issue
… with v1 going to REC
DS: good point
… I would prefer a "quick victory" and move fwd
… What if we drop the params?
MB: we can either specify what is exactly in WK
… and change spec to match WK
DS: and then in v2 we go with the new constructor/initialize
MB: option #2 is to not specify initialization in v1
DS: I don't like that
OP: that would create a problem with testing
AB: we need to capture AvK's comments; do we want an issue too?
<mbrubeck> ISSUE: Add a DOM4-style constructor to create and initialize TouchEvent objects.
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-23 - Add a DOM4-style constructor to create and initialize TouchEvent objects. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/23/edit .
OP: Apple's inittouchevent is different then what's in WK
<smaug> http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebCore/dom/TouchEvent.idl vs http://developer.apple.com/library/safari/#documentation/UserExperience/Reference/TouchEventClassReference/TouchEvent/TouchEvent.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40009358
AB: is there anything else from Anne's comments for today?
MB: there is another issue
… it's about document touch interface
… I think his proposal makes sense
… Are there any objections?
<mbrubeck> 'Instead of introducing a new interface called DocumentTouch please use "partial interface Document" instead to extend the Document interface. You need to add a reference here too for Document. '
AB: Matt, did you respond to that part of AvK's comment?
AB: please do so and if no one
objects to your proposal, then let's do it
... on September 15 we received some "table for each touch event type" from Greg Dennis http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0065.html
... so far no followup
DS: I think the table in question is non-normative
… we could add it without any change to normative text
AB: any other comments or opinons?
… any disagreements with what Doug said
… Can you Doug please respond to Dennis and say that's a reasonable thing and we'll do it?
AB: Issue-22 http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/22
was created based on comments from Cathy. Anders responded to
this issue with some implementation data
... any followups on what Anders presented?
… I presume we want to follow the current deployments as much as possible
CC: I haven't read Anders' email yet
… it appears most impls send touchend and touchcancel if touchstart is not sent
… I did some testing on Safari
… I think we need some wording changes
… The text should match what has been implemented
AB: would you Cathy make a proposal for the text changes to address Issue-22?
CC: yes, I can do that
<scribe> ACTION: cathy create a proposal to address Issue-22 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/20-webevents-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-71 - Create a proposal to address Issue-22 [on Cathy Chan - due 2011-09-27].
AB: Issue-21 http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/21
was created based on comments from Cathy.
... is this mainly about the spec being a bit under-specified? What's it going to take to address this issue? Is some additional testing needed?
MB: I think we just have some underspecification here
AB: would you Cathy make a proposal?
CC: yes, I can do that but last time Matt suggested some testing is needed
… not sure how to test it
… I can propose the text change
… but we need to make sure it matches impls
<scribe> ACTION: matt produce a test to help us address Issue-21 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/20-webevents-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-72 - Produce a test to help us address Issue-21 [on Matt Brubeck - due 2011-09-27].
<scribe> ACTION: cathy propose text to address Issue-21 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/20-webevents-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-73 - Propose text to address Issue-21 [on Cathy Chan - due 2011-09-27].
AB: thanks Cathy and Matt!
AB: last week Tran agreed to
ACTION-66: Create multitouch test cases for the Touch Events
... what's the status Tran?
DT: I haven't done anything yet
… I'd like Olli to take the lead
… and then I can follow his lead
OP: yes, I can create some tests
<scribe> ACTION: Olli create some multitouch test cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/20-webevents-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-74 - Create some multitouch test cases [on Olli Pettay - due 2011-09-27].
DT: as soon as Olli has something, I can start my tests
AB: as I mentioned last week
Doug and I will move forward with the process of formally
adding this spec to our charter. I invited Mozilla's TedM to
the call but didn't hear from him
... make a correction here, Ted is on the call
Ted: I work for Mozilla
… I've been writing some patches
… been discussing with Webkit and Chrome teams
… our spec is still experimental
… Olli and Matt suggested I join the call
… Re renaming the API
… I really do mean "joystick"
… I think game controller is too general
DS: would this cover things like Wiimotes
… or Kinect?
Ted: want to stay with devices like joystick
SG: Wiimotes gets toward gestures
Ted: agree we should be careful about scope
DS: there is some work @ W3C on accelerometers
Ted: you mean Device Orientation stuff?
<smaug> ted_: you should discuss with dougt
Ted: there is some related data
… agree we should do some coordination
DS: perhaps use "game pad" rather than joystick
… the name will invoke concerns if we use "game controller"
… Think we should define the devices we want to cover
Ted: in Linux, joystick is used
… game pad would cover what we care about, buttons and multiple accellerometers per device
DS: I don't think Nintendo is a W3C member
DT: are we going to look at TV remote?
… or is that out of scope
SG: what do you mean by TV remote?
DT: there are some remote protocols
… can be used with IPTV
DS: I think they are different
… game controllers typically don't manage TVs
… D3E does treat remote controllers differently
… not sure there is anything we need to do there
… D3E treats them as keyboards
Ted: in the interest of tight scope, think we should leave them out
DS: agree with Ted
SG: agree it's a different UC
AB: there is a Web and TV IG @ the W3C
… and they may have an opinon on what we should or should not do in this space
DS: yes and they are meeting in a WS now in Hollywood
AB: regarding the next steps for this API, my recommendation is that until this spec is formally added to the charter that we use the list for all discussions. We
… could also get Scott set up with a Mercurial/Hg location to put a draft.
… and of course we can the same for Ted
SG: I'm willing to help
Ted: I would prefer to
... I have a pretty good idea about what I want
… to see in the spec
SG: I'm having a prob landing a patch because there isn't a spec
DS: so you need a spec?
<smaug> (that is surprising given some other code landing to webkit)
SG: yes, I do; but we are on the right path
AB: is there an action for Doug to get these guys Mercurial access?
SG: yes, I think so
AB: should it go in the webevents directory?
DS: yes, I think that makes sense
AB: I think Ted and Scott just need W3C accounts
SG: I have an account
Ted: I don't know if I have a W3C account
DS: it's pretty simple; I'll get the link
AB: let's plan to use the list for discussions
… and Doug and I will push the formal charter changes
DS: it would be really helpful to have a clear scope section
… and some UCs and Reqs
AB: Ted and Scott, what do you think?
SG: yes, I can look into that
AB: ideally, Scott and Ted, we would be able to justifiy this API without actually changing the scope text in our charter
… and I think Doug is also asking for a scope section in the spec itself
DS: yes, that's true
… re the charter, I think the scoping will need to change somewhat
… Probably just needs a short overview
DS: I sent a related note to the list
AB: anything else on Joystick for today?
AB: we have a proposal by Vincent
Scheib to add Mouse Lock to Web Events charter
... Vincent's proposal was sent to both WebApps and WebEvents on Sept 15. I don't think there have been any followups. If there are no objections raised to Vincent's proposal by Sept 22, I will work with Doug on the process of adding this to the charter.
<scribe> ACTION: barstow work with Doug on formally adding Mouse Lock to WebEvents' charter [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/20-webevents-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-75 - Work with Doug on formally adding Mouse Lock to WebEvents' charter [on Arthur Barstow - due 2011-09-27].
AB: if anyone has any comments on
Vincent's proposal, please respond on public-webevents
... I will followup with Vincent on how he would want to work on the spec
DS: I would want the spec to include Scoping info and UCs and Reqs
AB: he already has some UCs in the spec
AB: any other topics for
... next call is Sept 27; meeting adjourned
... please continue technical discussion on the mail list
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Wii modes/Wiimotes/ Succeeded: s/Nitendo/Nintendo/ Succeeded: s/game pad would cover what we care about/game pad would cover what we care about, buttons and multiple accellerometers per device/ Succeeded: s/the are/they are/ Found ScribeNick: ArtB Found Scribe: Art Default Present: mbrubeck, +1.503.712.aaaa, scottmg, Doug_Schepers, Cathy, Olli_Pettay, Art_Barstow, Ted_Mielczarek Present: Art_Barstow Olli_Pettay Dzung_Tran Ted_Mielczarek Doug_Schepers Scott_Graham Matt_Brubeck Cathy_Chan Regrets: Anders_Höckersten Sangwhan_Moon Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0067.html Found Date: 20 Sep 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/09/20-webevents-minutes.html People with action items: barstow cathy matt olli propose text WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]