HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

30 Jun 2011





<MichaelC> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Date: 30 June 2011

<janina> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 30 June 2011

<janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon

<janina> agenda: this

<scribe> scribe: LJW

Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

Last Call Review Status Checkin http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Spec_Review

MC: Where people have updated their wiki status we can see what's been reviewed.

JS: We didn't get any responses to requests in the agenda.
... Do we have an easy way to mail people from the wiki?

MC: Not really.
... Not everyone referenced on the wiki is on the TF.
... Some assignments still have question marks, or company names rather than individual names.
... I probably have addresses for most people, or could track them down.

JS: We should look at the question marks.

MC: On the global section, Gez is a question. Joshua was too, but he's submitted comments already.
... On dynamic we have Cynthia, but need someone else as well.
... Block Lidy Neville is a question.
... Léonie and Katy are also assigned, and Léonie has added comments.
... On inline we have Léonie and a question.
... I could maybe take a look at this.
... On embed we have Gez as a question and need other people as well.
... Who had actions to follow up and ask people about helping with the review.

CS: I was due to get in touch with some people. It might be helpful if someone else could help pick up on this.
... Janina could you pick up with /or Andrew Kirkpatrick?

JS: Yes.

MC: Media is being looked at by the media sub group.
... Jeff Freed is still a question.
... Canvas is being looked at by the canvas sub group. Is it on the radar Rich?

RS: We're doing several things at the moment.

<judy> Here's Doug's posting about mixed Canvas and SVG: http://schepers.cc/retain-a11y-immediately

MC: Does that mean the sub group is able to help with the spec review?

RS: Wehave limited resources at the moment.

JB: The due dilligence review will need to be done, but right now the design is broken and it's a key chunk of HTML5 that seems a little waffly right now.
... Bottom line is that canvas needs to be accessible, and a mixed SVG and canvas mode is being proposed. Rich, the timing issue is still important to consider though.

<MikeSmith> +1 to Judy's point about it being important to continue with further canvas review

JS: We're not sure what actions we need to take. We have to find solutions we can all live with to make canvas accessible.

CS: I'd like to put on the record how important this is. It's not a settled decision.

RS: Not being able to find things on a screen with a magnifier is a hole. I'll lodge an objection if this problem isn't solved. We're trying to provide a solution that will retain the features of canvas.
... We're trying to come up with a solution that meets everyone's needs. Without this we don't have accessibility on canvas.
... I've suggested a solution, to tie it to hit testing. Accessibility people will be open to alternatives, and there is a new proposal to consider, but this needs to get addressed..

MC: For the purpose of this discussion, canvas is just a binding. The accessibility issues are in a different spec.

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to note the canvas section of HTML spec is just a binding

RS: If it can't be made accessible, the element should be removed.
... Also, there is no editor for the canvas spec.

JB: I'm a bit hesitant... I'm happy we had an interesting proposal out of the discussion here, we really need people to look at it. If people don't think the solution is feasible we need to hear about it.
... There seems to be an expectation that canvas will only be used in very controlled conditions. There's been a lot of discussion about that on list. Not sure it's worth continuing that here.
... If people have ideas about that, perhaps people could email. But we need to have people look at the options.

RS: What MS is doing is taking the entire bounds of the canvas elements and applying it to all the accessibles inside of it. That's the only solution they had at the time.
... Cynthia, what would be helpful is you could ask Frank to take a look at the proposal from Doug.

MC: Imagemaps is assigned to Steve, but no-one else.

SF: I'll take a look.

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Spec_Review

RS: Michael could you give me an action to talk to people inside IBM about assigning review items?

MC: On Math we have a couple of question marks.

JF: I have a colleague on campus who may be able to help.
... We need browser vendors to give us input on this.

<richardschwerdtfe> gotta jump

JF: From an authoring prospective, it appears innocuous. If it's an implementation issue, we need the browser vendors on board

JS: I can approach John Gardner...

MC: On SVG we have Charles McCaffey Neville and John Gardner with a question mark, plus Cynthia to find someone from MS.

CS: It's on top of my list now I'm back from vacation.

JF: Would it be useful to ask Doug to take a look as well?

MC: Doug is likely to review it on behalf of the SVG WG anyway.
... On tables we have Joshua who has provided some information, plus Lynne Holdsworth and Bruce Bailey have also agreed.
... On forms we have Cynthia and Josh...
... On details we have Steve as the only person.
... On interactive elements we have Cynthia, James Nurthen to find someone at Oracle...
... We can ping Stefan at SAP.
... We don't have anyone on links.
... I'll put my name to this.
... Landmarks, Léonie is the only person.
... User agents, Kelly Ford is co-ordinating with the UAAG review.

JS: Do we know which areas they're looking at specifically?

MC: It's on their wiki...

JS: Do we want to ask them specifically about things on our list?

MC: I think we did for the user agents section.
... Web applications, we have several question marks.
... Scripting, Gez with a question, Cynthia to find someone at MS, and IBM with a question.

JS: We have quite a bit we're not covering.

MC: On focus, we have Greg, plus Charles MN with a question, and also Judy.
... Editing, we have Matt May with a question, plus IBM and MS with questions.
... On drag and drop we have Everett Zufelt and Gez Lemon with question marks.

JF: If we're reaching out to NVDA, we should include this. Perhaps Mozilla as well.

LW: I'll drop Jamie Teh a line.

MC: On syntax, we have Cynthia finding someone at MS, and we need to find people at Opera, Apple and IBM.
... On obsolete features, we have John.

JS: Pinging people is the important thing.
... We've had a note from Laura to say she's no longer able to do her weekly bug reports.
... We need someone to continue this, if it's helpful to continue them. Do we assign it to bug triage?

MC: Bug triage has been a bit dormant, and Martin has said he's no longer able to facilitate.

JF: As we move towards the end of July, we'll need bug triage again I think.

The div element and a11y http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/grouping-content.html#the-div-element

<Marco_Ranon> LJW: something I came acrosss last week

<Marco_Ranon> LJW: the specs state to avoid using DIV element as it leads to poor accessibility

<Marco_Ranon> SF: if you use DIV with no semantic meanings where there are elements with semantic meaning - probably that's what he specs mean

Subteam Reports: Canvas; Media; Text; Bug Triage

<Marco_Ranon> JS: probably we should file a bug to clarify

<Marco_Ranon> JS: it's how you use DIV important. the rationale for that statement could be improved

JF: We have two problems with media we're still trying to tease through. One is multi level navigation, and I think we're nearly there with that one.
... We'll have a change proposal in by tomorrow.
... The other issue is the paused media AKA the poster alt discussion. It's a mess!
... After looking at aria-describedby and realising why it can't work, we have to think again.
... I'm writing an email to suggest we look at the original poster element idea again with fresh eyes.
... How the problem is solved isn't important to me, but the fact we solve it is.

JS: With the text sub team we have a couple of actions in the air. Metagenerator is one, we think Leif's proposal will work, but it needs review and tidying up.

SF: I've started work on this already.

JS: The other one is figcaption. We're going to request some kind of conformance validation checking based on length. We need to descide what length will trigger a conformance warning.
... Length seems to be a good trigger to throw up a warning.
... We're still pursuing longdesc and table summary. There are counter proposals for longdesc and ongoing discussions on the HTML list.

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: CS Cynthia_Shelly JB JF JS Janina_Sajka John_Foliot Judy LJW LW Leonie Lynn_Holdsworth MC Marco_Ranon MichaelC Michael_Cooper Mike MikeSmith P18 P20 P27 P49 RS Rich_Schwerdtfeger SF Steve_Faulkner Stevef cyns dasse davidb html-a11y inserted janina joined onie_Watson richardschwerdtfe silvia trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Regrets: Laura_Carlson
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Jun/0276.html
Found Date: 30 Jun 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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