Forms Working Group Teleconference

11 May 2011

See also: IRC log


+1.952.931.aaaa, +1.443.837.aabb, Leigh_Klotz, [IPcaller], Nick_van_den_Bleeken, ebruchez


<trackbot> Date: 11 May 2011

<klotz> trackbot, start telecon

<trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 11 May 2011

<scribe> scribe: nick

"Model-driven Views" thread on webapps

<klotz> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Apr/0020.html

<klotz> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2011AprJun/0475.html

klotz: I responded but nobody really commented on it

<klotz> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011May/0008.html

klotz: I explained how we implemented 'inactive dom' -> our instance and explained how we can listen to DOM change events
... The only thing we can do is answer the questions that they ask
... has anyone looked at the javascript package they made

dmccreary: Leigh your answer was very good and professional
... MVC in the browser is the way to do it in the long term
... we need to have group of neutral people promoting XForms

<dmccreary> I just muted

<dmccreary> is it better?

Transform function module

ebruchez: I had an action item to propose function names but it is still pending
... it is annoying to only have a URI version, and you can use the document function to do the uri resolving
... but it only works good for XSLT and not XQuery because XQuery is plain text
... XPath 3.0 has a function to retrieve unparsed text, but XQuery isn't plain text...
... if we solve this we could have a single function that receives the transformer document

klotz: last week we added an extra mime-type parameter will this solve this

ebruchez: it won't work, because XQuery specifies the encoding in the text file, so we can't convert the 'text' to a string
... because we can't determine the encoding of the bytes
... but it would be nice if we could solve this problem

klotz: are you looking for input?

ebruchez: input would be appreciated

klotz: maybe you and philip can talk about the related events

kurt: Where would the XQuery be invoked?

ebruchez: It will be a function, so everywhere were you could have an XPath expression (e.g.: setvalue, submission, ...)
... The current version only accepts a URI, it would be nice that the transformer could live in the instance
... this is what we started to discuss last week in response to my e-mail

[Erik recaps last weeks discussion]

Kurt: Would it make sense to have two functions transform-document, transform-uri, with additional parameters language, ...
... we have to look at parameters too

ebruchez: xslt takes parameters (not used all the time) this is also exposed in the java API, so we should make this available
... XPath 3.0 has high level functions to combine things better but that isn't available in XPath 2.0 or 1.0. But combining is ...

Kurt: In … you pass an XML node that contains the parameters
... you could store the parameters in the instance

klotz: we do that for headers to

Kurt: with this approach we can pass in namespaces
... until you see map come a standard datastructure in xpath, I think the instance approach is the best

nick: saxon also has a transform function as an extension and it takes also a node parameter containing the parameters

ebruchez: they are discussing to have an immutable hashmap type in XPath 2.0

Kurt: There are multiple implementations the Saxon one is immutable, eXists, Mark Logic have mutable ones

klotz: we have the need for multiple inputs:

the input transformation: string or node, and the type of the transformer

passing in paramters: name value pairs

result: a document, multiple documents, text, text/html

Kurt: In XSLT you can set the output type

klotz: we need a way to read the output because it isn't always a document
... we also need to know the result type

Schematron validation (via transform)

<dmccreary> I am the 952

klotz: We lost philippe we will discuss it another time

XML Prague publication of paper by Alain Couthures


alain: I looked at the IBM JSON XML proposal, it looks quite different to our approach
... maybe John talk about it
... There are to many ways to convert from JSON to XML

klotz: Do we need to support them all, or do we only need to be able to read and write to JSON services

alain: My main goal was the later

klotz: I think we should bring it up again when John is here

Tree Controls

<dmccreary> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Annotations

dmccreary: I update the wiki page
... The mime-type attribute on textarea is used by multiple implementation

<dmccreary> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/YUI_Rich_Text_Editor

dmccreary: In the YUI implementation has 2 editors the simple editor (only allows bold, italic, colors, links)
... Making the simple editor compatible between implementations would be easy
... so it seems that we need an extra attribute that signals if the contents is simple
... All other implementation use a complicated cofiguration file
... I will do a writeup about the mime-type attribute and a profile attribute
... I invite everyone to read it and give comments

klotz: I'm a bit worried for the funny names for the profiles, simple sounds a bit at-hock

dmccreary: I'm trying to look for patterns between different implementations

klotz: has TEI a way to specify which elements are allowed

dmccreary: yes they have

klotz: what is the namespace of those profiles
... how do I select a vocabulary

dmccreary: you select an xsd-schema, and can make modification schema

klotz: So you have to reverse engineer see what elements are allowed in the xsd and provide the controls to create the markup
... maybe this is the correct approach, maybe some implementations will only support somestatic uri's others will support xsd schemes, even others accept relax ng schemes
... I would propose that you add a schema attribute with points to a schema (xsd, schematron, relax ng)

dmccreary: So I only need mediatype and schema



nick: we could use a CURIE for the schema attrubute

<html version="XHTML2"


xmlns: MR="http://www.example.org/roles/myRoles#">

<head profile="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab">

<title> An XHTML 2 document using Role</title>



<p role="MR:main">The main content</p>

<p role="MR:music">Some musical support for the page</p>



dmccreary: sounds good

rssagent, make minutes

trackbot, make minutes

<trackbot> Sorry, nick, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: +1.952.931.aaaa, +1.443.837.aabb, Leigh_Klotz, [IPcaller], Nick_van_den_Bleeken, ebruchez
Present: +1.952.931.aaaa +1.443.837.aabb Leigh_Klotz [IPcaller] Nick_van_den_Bleeken ebruchez

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Found Date: 11 May 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/05/11-forms-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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