15:04:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
15:04:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/11-forms-irc
15:04:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:04:59 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #forms
15:05:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
15:05:01 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see IA_XForms()11:00AM already started
15:05:02 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
15:05:02 <trackbot> Date: 11 May 2011
15:05:09 <nick> zakim, code?
15:05:09 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), nick
15:05:47 <Zakim> +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
15:06:48 <klotz> trackbot, start telecon
15:06:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:06:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
15:06:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see IA_XForms()11:00AM already started
15:06:54 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
15:06:56 <trackbot> Date: 11 May 2011
15:07:59 <nick> scribe: nick
15:08:30 <nick> TOPIC: "Model-driven Views" thread on webapps
15:08:40 <klotz> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Apr/0020.html
15:08:45 <klotz> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2011AprJun/0475.html
15:09:09 <nick> klotz: I responded but nobody really commented on it
15:09:55 <klotz> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011May/0008.html
15:10:18 <nick> klotz: I explained how we implemented 'inactive dom' -> our instance and explained how we can listen to DOM change events
15:11:25 <nick> klotz: The only thing we can do is answer the questions that they ask
15:11:50 <nick> klotz: has anyone looked at the javascript package they made
15:12:41 <nick> dmccreary: Leigh your answer was very good and professional
15:13:32 <Zakim> +ebruchez
15:13:47 <nick> dmccreary: MVC in the browser is the way to do it in the long term
15:15:10 <nick> dmccreary: we need to have group of neutral people promoting XForms 
15:16:05 <klotz> zakim, who is noisy?
15:16:16 <Zakim> klotz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Leigh_Klotz (85%), [IPcaller] (9%)
15:16:32 <dmccreary> I just muted
15:16:37 <dmccreary> is it better?
15:16:49 <nick> TOPIC: Transform function module
15:17:33 <nick> ebruchez: I had an action item to propose function names but it is still pending
15:18:36 <nick> ebruchez: it is annoying to only have a URI version, and you can use the document function to do the uri resolving
15:19:17 <nick> ebruchez: but it only works good for XSLT and not XQuery because XQuery is plain text
15:19:54 <nick> ebruchez: XPath 3.0 has a function to retrieve unparsed text, but XQuery isn't plain text...
15:21:14 <nick> ebruchez: if we solve this we could have a single function that receives the transformer document
15:21:42 <nick> klotz: last week we added an extra mime-type parameter will this solve this
15:22:18 <nick> ebruchez: it won't work, because XQuery specifies the encoding in the text file, so we can't convert the 'text' to a string
15:22:38 <nick> ebruchez: because we can't determine the encoding of the bytes
15:22:57 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:23:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:23:11 <nick> ebruchez: but it would be nice if we could solve this problem
15:23:23 <nick> klotz: are you looking for input?
15:23:38 <nick> ebruchez: input would be appreciated 
15:23:57 <nick> klotz: maybe you and philip can talk about the related events
15:24:42 <nick> kurt: Where would the XQuery be invoked?
15:25:31 <nick> ebruchez: It will be a function, so everywhere were you could have an XPath expression (e.g.: setvalue, submission, ...)
15:26:15 <nick> ebruchez: The current version only accepts a URI, it would be nice that the transformer could live in the instance
15:26:40 <nick> ebruchez: this is what we started to discuss last week in response to my e-mail
15:27:28 <nick> [Erik recaps last weeks discussion]
15:28:49 <nick> Kurt: Would it make sense to have two functions transform-document, transform-uri, with additional parameters language, ... 
15:30:00 <nick> Kurt: we have to look at parameters too
15:31:23 <nick> ebruchez: xslt takes parameters (not used all the time) this is also exposed in the java API, so we should make this available 
15:32:42 <nick> ebruchez: XPath 3.0 has high level functions to combine things better but that isn't available in XPath 2.0 or 1.0. But combining is ...
15:33:26 <nick> Kurt: In … you pass an XML node that contains the parameters
15:34:24 <nick> Kurt: you could store the parameters in the instance
15:34:54 <nick> klotz: we do that for headers to
15:34:56 <nick> q+
15:35:40 <nick> Kurt: with this approach we can pass in namespaces
15:36:42 <nick> Kurt: until you see map come a standard datastructure in xpath, I think the instance approach is the best
15:38:24 <nick> nick: saxon also has a transform function as an extension and it takes also a node parameter containing the parameters 
15:39:11 <nick> ebruchez: they are discussing to have an immutable hashmap type in XPath 2.0
15:39:53 <nick> Kurt: There are multiple implementations the Saxon one is immutable, eXists, Mark Logic have mutable ones
15:41:38 <nick> klotz: we have the need for multiple inputs:
15:41:39 <Zakim> -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
15:42:05 <nick> zakim, code
15:42:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', nick
15:42:11 <nick> zakim, code?
15:42:11 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), nick
15:42:43 <Zakim> +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
15:43:20 <nick> the input transformation: string or node, and the type of the transformer
15:43:40 <nick> passing in paramters: name value pairs
15:44:02 <nick> result: a document, multiple documents, text, text/html
15:44:37 <nick> Kurt: In XSLT you can set the output type
15:45:14 <nick> klotz: we need a way to read the output because it isn't always a document
15:45:55 <nick> klotz: we also need to know the result type
15:46:35 <nick> TOPIC: Schematron validation (via transform)
15:46:38 <klotz> zakim, who is here?
15:46:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.952.931.aaaa, +1.443.837.aabb, Leigh_Klotz, ebruchez, [IPcaller], Nick_van_den_Bleeken
15:46:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, nick, ebruchez, klotz, dmccreary, alain, trackbot
15:46:57 <dmccreary> I am the 952
15:47:22 <nick> klotz: We lost philippe we will discuss it another time
15:47:38 <nick> TOPIC: XML Prague publication of paper by Alain Couthures
15:47:45 <nick> http://www.xmlprague.cz/2011/presentations/alain-couthures-json-for-xforms.pdf
15:48:17 <nick> alain: I looked at the IBM JSON XML proposal, it looks quite different to our approach 
15:48:32 <nick> alain: maybe John talk about it
15:48:58 <nick> alain: There are to many ways to convert from JSON to XML
15:49:25 <nick> klotz: Do we need to support them all, or do we only need to be able to read and write to JSON services
15:49:54 <nick> alain: My main goal was the later
15:50:45 <nick> klotz: I think we should bring it up again when John is here
15:51:30 <nick> TOPIC: Tree Controls
15:51:40 <dmccreary> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Annotations
15:51:41 <nick> dmccreary: I update the wiki page
15:52:15 <nick> dmccreary: The mime-type attribute on textarea is used by multiple implementation
15:52:40 <dmccreary> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/YUI_Rich_Text_Editor
15:52:59 <nick> dmccreary: In the YUI implementation has 2 editors the simple editor (only allows bold, italic, colors, links)
15:53:23 <nick> dmccreary: Making the simple editor compatible between implementations would be easy
15:53:57 <nick> dmccreary: so it seems that we need an extra attribute that signals if the contents is simple
15:54:17 <nick> dmccreary: All other implementation use a complicated cofiguration file
15:54:57 <nick> dmccreary: I will do a writeup about the mime-type attribute and a profile attribute
15:55:19 <nick> dmccreary: I invite everyone to read it and give comments
15:56:04 <nick> klotz: I'm a bit worried for the funny names for the profiles, simple sounds a bit at-hock 
15:56:46 <nick> dmccreary: I'm trying to look for patterns between different implementations 
15:57:20 <nick> klotz: has TEI a way to specify which elements are allowed
15:57:27 <nick> dmccreary: yes they have
15:57:39 <nick> klotz: what is the namespace of those profiles
15:58:02 <nick> klotz: how do I select a vocabulary 
15:58:24 <nick> dmccreary: you select an xsd-schema, and can make modification schema
15:59:25 <nick> klotz: So you have to reverse engineer see what elements are allowed in the xsd and provide the controls to create the markup
16:00:26 <nick> klotz: maybe this is the correct approach, maybe some implementations will only support somestatic uri's others will support xsd schemes, even others accept relax ng schemes
16:01:58 <nick> klotz: I would propose that you add a schema attribute with points to a schema (xsd, schematron, relax ng)
16:02:11 <nick> dmccreary: So I only need mediatype and schema
16:03:19 <nick> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/CR-curie-20090116/
16:03:58 <nick> http://www.w3.org/TR/curie/
16:04:26 <nick> nick: we could use a CURIE for the schema attrubute
16:04:52 <nick> <html version="XHTML2"
16:04:52 <nick>       xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
16:04:52 <nick>       xmlns:MR="http://www.example.org/roles/myRoles#">
16:04:52 <nick>       <head profile="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab">
16:04:52 <nick>           <title>An XHTML 2 document using Role</title>
16:04:54 <nick>       </head>
16:04:56 <nick>       <body>
16:04:57 <nick>           <p role="MR:main">The main content</p>
16:05:00 <nick>           <p role="MR:music">Some musical support for the page</p>
16:05:02 <nick>       </body>
16:05:03 <nick> </html>
16:05:29 <nick> dmccreary: sounds good
16:05:49 <nick> zakim, make minutes
16:05:49 <Zakim> -Leigh_Klotz
16:05:49 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', nick
16:05:50 <Zakim> - +1.952.931.aaaa
16:05:50 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:05:51 <Zakim> - +1.443.837.aabb
16:05:59 <nick> rssagent, make minutes
16:06:18 <Zakim> -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
16:06:22 <nick> trackbot, make minutes
16:06:22 <trackbot> Sorry, nick, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
16:06:46 <nick> trackbot, end meeting
16:06:46 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:06:46 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.952.931.aaaa, +1.443.837.aabb, Leigh_Klotz, [IPcaller], Nick_van_den_Bleeken, ebruchez
16:06:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:06:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/11-forms-minutes.html trackbot
16:06:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:06:48 <RRSAgent> I see no action items