<shadi> Maximize compatibility with current and future user tools.
Shawn: Print version in beta, got
it printed for now (for Sharron and SXSW) but it is still open.
Is everyone OK with
... above wording for now?
<shawn> wcag: 4.1 Compatible: Maximize compatibility with current and future user agents, including assistive technologies.
<sylvie> ok with this
<shawn> Any objections?
Shawn: any objections to printing for new and coming back to it after these conferences
Sharron: I think it's great, what is the cause of the discomfort?
Shawn: We need broader review
Wayne: It's good for this week and I personally think it's good forever.
Shawn: Designer does not like the bolding, feels it breaks it up and makes it harder to read
Wayne: I'm REALLY ok with the
bolding, provides mnemonics
... Not a show stopper, but it is so nice to have those 3 or 4 words to remember by
Shawn: Might if I have time send
a copy out to the group to get feedback
... anything else on that?
... Now will hand chair to Shadi for next
Shadi: Trying to get this ready
for Shawn's roadshow.
... needed to test placement of buttons etc to make it as accessible and usable as possible. Linked from the agenda, please navigate to page called "Stories..."
Shadi: I would like to ask for your thoughts and feedback
Shawn: Can you comment on the email submissions?
Shadi: Some of those have been addressed. Sylvie and Emmanuelle did not like the wording of the buttons. Needed more context. So I have made that change so that headings are not generic but more specific.
Liam: I think that visually it is
a bit confusing, I am sorry to say.
... understanding what just happened when you use the buttons. it is more of an issue when you are keyboard navigating, it seems to break the logic.
Shadi: So are you saying that if you are on this page, the subsection listing and if you click on one of those, it should not open, but take you to that part of the page.
Liam: OK, I see now. I take it all back, it's brilliant
Shadi: From the agenda, see additional types of buttons and styles. There is another set of alternatives. Anyone want to comment on those?
<sylvie> it was about the link
Liam: If I don't need a mouse, I am good. Good toggle functionality, easy to use, good!
Shadi: Hit tab in between enter and collapse
Sylvie: When I am on the first page with the "Read more about Mr. Lee" the additional text is there, but when I collapse, the screenreader gets lost and I am with Mr Olsen. The page with the buttons and headings works better, I stay in the same place.
<LiamM> Shadi: total capitulation
Jennifer: Does this mean that we go back to the previous?
Shadi: the page "additional..."
will give you the choices
... the headings approach vs the link approach
... The resolution is that we will use the headings approach and will consider the naming of those.
Wayne: Anyone in Mozilla notices
that the verbiage makes this hard to use.
... the main navigation is almost invisible in the context of the page when styles are disabled.
... your chance of missing that is very high when screen is magnified.
Shadi: Placing a heading in front of that is the fix, I believe.
Shawn: When Andrew added an interim implementation of this, there was nxt page, previous page...
<shadi> ACTION: shadi - add invisible link before the in-suite navigation menu [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/11-eo-minutes.html#action01]
Shadi: anything else? about overall functionality
Shawn: very excited about it, thank you!
Shadi: jennifer: Please refresh and tell me if the button labels are read twice?
Jennifer: I am not looking at it now Shadi, but they were before the call
Liam: I am using another approach. I am still testing.
Shadi: When you did all the testing this week - and thank you for that! - were you using any particular method?
Sylvie: Tried to use various methods
Jennifer: For my planning, how much time do we have? Just a couple of days?
Shadi: Shawn wants to go live very soon.
Jennifer: These screen readers try to accomodate bad coding. Their behavior is sometimes non-standard as a result. It is not in our control.
Shadi: I understand but feel like
I should meet the requirements for the most used tools.
... does anyone object to that? meeting the most popular browsers and AT and using it for these upcoming demos?
Shadi: If we go with this configuration will work on most situations, but not the best with NVDA and IE combo
Sylvie: Since NVDA users are informed that it is better to use NVDA with Firefox and not with IE, it is not a big issue if the functionality does not work with NVDA and IE.
Shadi: OK, any objections to allowing this to stand?
Wayne: At some point we should start contacting AT and browsers saying, we just wrote valid code and this does not work. It is impossible to keep up with all the dropped balls of screenreaders.
Jennifer: In scope for IE?
... why don't consumers demand better?
Shawn: In this case we can say,
here is what we did, where it breaks. Then up to others to
... we could post the info.
Wayne: This is not something we should do tomorrow, but should have a strategy since it comes up a lot.
Shadi: I spent about 20% of time
doing actual coding and the rest chasing bugs and work arounds
with browsers and AT.
... it is a good point.
Sharron: EO role is also to educate tool makers.
Shadi: Thanks to everyone for
your help, especially Sylvie and Liam.
... now let's look at headings.
... If you are on overview page, and be able to see four sub-pages.
... in particular see "Variety of Web Browsers" have had a few titles, not sure it is finalized. Before we get into that, are there any other issues with page headings?
Shawn: The other three really sing, really work well.
<shadi> [[introduces some of the hardware and software innovations, such as voice recognition, eye-tracking, and other systems that people with disabilities commonly use]]
<shadi> Diversity of Web Browsing
<shadi> Diversity in Web Browsing
<shadi> Tools and Techniques for Web Browsing
<shadi> User Tools
<shadi> Access Technologies
<shadi> Assistive Technologies
<shadi> Use of Access Technologies
Jennifer: like to use term diversity somehow
<shadi> Web Browsing Techniques
Shawn: Diversity of web tools, user tools
<shadi> Diversity of Web Tools
<shadi> Diversity of User Tools
Shawn: web browsing techniques
<shadi> Web Browsing Methods
<shadi> Web Browsing Strategies
Shawn: strategies, approaches
<shadi> Web Browsing Approaches
Liam: really about different types of people, not the tools they use
<Wayne> adaptations to web browsing
<Wayne> coping strategies for web browsing
<sylvie> Diversity of Web use
Liam: yeh like that
Shawn: similar to Diversity of Users
<sylvie> Browsing the Web on different ways or with different ways?
<Wayne> how people browse
<shadi> Web Access Techniques
<sylvie> Tools and techniques to browse the Web
Jennifer: Web Access Techniques
<shadi> Web Access Tools
Wayne: Web Access Tools
Jennifer: not just tools, also approaches
<shadi> Approaches to Web Access
<shadi> Web Browsing WAIs :)
<shadi> Ways of Browsing
Jennifer: Ways of Browsing
<shawn> liam: the ways people browse
<shadi> Ways People Browse
Liam: Ways people browse
<sylvie> Various ways of browsing
<shawn> [ shawn notes that while she likes Web Access Techniques, it would probably be best not to use "Techniques" since that has another meaning in WCAG etc]
Shadi: 2 items on a short list - Ways People Browse, Web Access Strategies
<shadi> Web Access Approaches
<shawn> Web Access Approaches, - Tools, - Strategies,. Methods
<shadi> Web Access Methods
<shadi> Way People Browse
<shadi> Ways People Browse
<LiamM> The Way We Browse Now
<Wayne> ways people browse +1
<shadi> [[Ways People Browse]]
<Wayne> The many ways people browse
<shadi> Many Ways People Browse
<shawn> Different Ways People Browse
Shawn: This will be publicly
findable, but will not be announced and will still say DRAFT.
More discussion possible.
... happy with Ways People Browse for now and we can sleep on it and change in future.
Shadi: How are you feeling about it Sylvie?
Sylvie: Not so happy, but if
everyone else like it, can accept.
... like Wayne's suggestion - the Many ways people browse.
Shadi: what do people think about that?
Sharron: It's a bit long, but OK
Jennifer: not super keen, it doesn't add enough to warrent the length
<Wayne> ways people browse +1
Shadi vote for Ways or many ways
Shawn: put it out, leave it on our list of things to consider
[some other thoughts in e-mail thread started 23 March]
The ways people browse
Diversity of Web Use (like this as it echoes the previous tab nicely)
Diversity of Browsing Techniques
How Different People Browse
How Other People Browse
How People Browse
How Different People Read The Web
Diverse Ways Of Reading The Web
Ways Of Reading The Web
shadi: May be a translation issue
with the word "Ways..."
... Understanding WCAG2 is ready for French translation if you know anyone who may be interested in helping
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say first paragraph (later)
Shawn: revise into paragraph to address Sylvie's concern and I wonder about the word innovation. Emphasis seems to be on futuristic things and should we not focus on the everyday things that people are using now.
Shadi: Can you take an action item to suggest wording?
Wayne: Are we talking about the opening paragraph?
Shawn: jennifer or Sylvie should take that action item
Jennifer: I can take a stab at it tomorrow morning early, would that help?
Shawn: yes, it will be
Shadi: We'll put it out as is, Jennifer will start a revision thread and next week we can all review and attend the thread and make the decision on the list.
Wayne: There is a line height
style problem on this page.
... when it is enlarged, it shmushes together, seems to be absolute numbers, rather than scalable.
Shadi: got it, thanks!
<shadi> ACTION: shadi - fix line height on sub-heading "how people with disabilities use the web" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/11-eo-minutes.html#action02]
Shadi: quickly browse through
pages of the suite and check the headings, sub headings...do
... ok to go with it for now?
Sharron: quick review says they are fine
<Wayne> I'm off to pump iron.
Shawn: Comments on new intro blurb? New wording based on last week's discussion.
Sharron: yes, looks good
Shadi: Really like it, thanks
Shawn for addressing my concerns.
... How to complain when you come across inaccessible web sites?
... not always about complaining.
Shawn: what to do?
Jennifer: yes, that takes out emotion
Shawn: so What to Do when you come across...
<shawn> Confirmed upcoming face-to-face meetings:
<shawn> 23-24 May 2011 in London, England (location and agenda to be announced in March)
<shawn> At TPAC 2011 in Santa Clara, CA, USA (2 days between 31 October to 4 November 2011 to be decided later)
Shawn: no meeting next week due
to CSUN, etc
... propose that on Mar 25th, starting one hour later in the US
All: no objections
Shawn: Ok, go forth watch the mailing list, wish us well on new site nav within a few hours and we're positioning this as an update-in-progress/live beta.
Jennifer: Will UAAG folks be able
to look at it?
... safe travels everyone