See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 10 March 2011
zakim code?
<scribe> Scribe: kford
JA: I want to spend a little time
on these and then let our reviews discuss.
... I sent to the list. Any read, let's discuss.
<jallan> 503 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0079.html
<jeanne> 501 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0078.html
<jallan> 504 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0080.html
GL: Might be good to arrange intent with a why and then a how.
<Greg> An interesting contrast is that the draft 508 refresh gives the choice of either allowing the user to prevent or pause autostart media.
<Greg> I'd also start with Why, then go on to How.
<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to post change of 503 to 2.9.2 changing the "why" to come before the "how". Refer to email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0079.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/10-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-515 - Post change of 503 to 2.9.2 changing the "why" to come before the "how". Refer to email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0079.html [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2011-03-17].
JA: Any other issues on 503?
<sharper> There may times -> There may be times
<sharper> 2nd Para intent
<sharper> +1
GL: I think most people will not understand the second paragraph about multilayer rendering.
<Greg> In the W3 technicalese there might be a distinction between content over a base-canvas image vs. a multi-layer rendering, but it's not obvious at all.
SH: I think it is good and we can get feedback if people do not understand it.
<Greg> It would be nice to prefix it with a sentence in plain English.
<Greg> In the example, the word "not" is written as "hot".
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to update 2.9.1 with text from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0080.html and fix typos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/10-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-516 - Update 2.9.1 with text from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0080.html and fix typos [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2011-03-17].
JA: can we have one SC that talks about toolbar and components instead of two separate?
SH: I think we should have one.
GL: If we combine they need to be at the same priority and it makes compliance a bit harder because the failure possibilities are greater.
<Greg> I am concerned about the phrase "from a predefined set", as it sounds like it could prohibit the user from adding their own custom controls, and that "configure the position" could be taken as meaning finely and arbitrarily adjusting the position (as with icons on the OS X desktop). It seems that what we want to require is that the user can, at minimum, "add, remove, and reorder the...
<Greg> ...available controls" on a toolbar or similar container.
<jallan> +1 reorder available controls
No objections to add/remove and rreorder
<Greg> Suggest replacing "toolbar, panel, inspector, configuration" with "toolbars and similar containers".
<jallan> ACTION: jallan to rewrite 1.8.5 using simons stuff, gregs comments, and include whole toolbars as well as components [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/10-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-517 - Rewrite 1.8.5 using simons stuff, gregs comments, and include whole toolbars as well as components [on Jim Allan - due 2011-03-17].
JA: I'd like to get some clarification on this one.
I had rewrittent his one because we had discusson about exclusions.
JA: Then we talked about should
we require a back button or not?
... Do we want to require a gback button?
GL: Yes.
JS: I'm inclined not to but will go with the group.
SH: Every browser has one.
JS: What about other browsers, media players and more.
<jallan> add where it makes sense to navigate content in sequence
KFord: I'm inclined to say yes on this.
GL: Jeanne on your concern it might be that the back is based on a URI so a virtual world would be just one URI.
<jallan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110202/#gl-control-inaccessible-content
<jallan> 2.9.3 (former 4.9.3) Execution Placeholder: The user can render a placeholder instead of executable content that would normally be contained within an on-screen area (e.g., Applet, Flash), until explicit user request to execute. (Level A)
Intent:
Some web content can be very distracting to users with disabilities. It may disrput attention, move focus or otherwise cause the user to not be able to interact with a web page effectively.
<Greg> This is similar to being able to stop autoplay media, and so maybe you can reuse some language from that.
Intent:
Some web content can be very distracting to users with disabilities. It may disrput attention, move focus or otherwise cause the user to not be able to interact with a web page effectively.
JA: Are 2.9.2 and 2.9.3 unique enough to be separate?
Group continuing to talk about this question.
JA: Does it matter to me that there's a flash movie sits there with the first frame with a play button versus requiring that the UA puts something else in place with a play button.
<Greg> I'd say the three requirements for a placeholder are that (a) it take up the same space as the thing it's replacing, (b) it informs the user that there is something waiting for them to start it, and (c) it is not animated or playing sound.
<Greg> If as Jeanne suggests the user agent may not always know the size of the media or executable (e.g. it could resize itself when started), we can omit from the SC and include as a recommended best practice in the Intent document that the user agent make the placeholder take up the same space as the item it is replacing, to the best of its ability.
JA: Any objections to combining these two SC?
None heard.
KP: I like saying it should take the same space it is replacing. How special case is this? For someone with RSI paing is tedious. If the user doesn't want to playthe movies, just see the titles it would be nice if this could e collapsed.
<Greg> Draft: "2.9.2 Media and Execution Placeholders: The user can have placeholders rendered instead of any time-based media or executable content that would normally be contained in an on-screen area (e.g. video, applet, or Flash), until explicit user request. (Level A)"
<Greg> Then in the Intent we give examples of the placeholder for a video being the poster attribute for the video or, if none is provided, the first frame, with an overlayed Play button.
<jallan> discussion of collapsable content, should be up to the author and good design.
<jallan> 2.9.4 (former 4.9.4) Execution Toggle: The user can turn on/off the execution of executable content that would not normally be contained within a particular area (e.g., Javascript). (Level A)
<Greg> Unfortunately my draft had a problem: it fails to address autoplay audio, which isn't contained in an on-screen area.
JA: Looking at 2.92-4, do we want
one global SC here?
... The other SC is that something as a placeholder is
rendered.
<jallan> ACTION: jallan to combine 2.9.2-4 into 1 sc with IER [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/10-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-518 - Combine 2.9.2-4 into 1 sc with IER [on Jim Allan - due 2011-03-17].
<Greg> Another draft: "2.9.2 Media and Execution Placeholders: The user can override the play on load of recognized time-based media and executable content so that the user the user is informed that something is paused (e.g. by a placeholder), and the content is not started until explicit user request. (Level A)"
<Greg> > Another draft: "2.9.2 Media and Execution Placeholders: The user can override the play on load of recognized time-based media and executable content so that the user the user is informed that something is paused (e.g. by a placeholder overlayed with a Play icon), and the content is not started until explicit user request. (Level A)"
Group talking about assigning work.
<jallan> ACTION: simon to write IER for 2.7.x as needed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/10-ua-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - simon
<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. sharper, spieters)
<jallan> ACTION: sharper to write IER for 2.7.x as needed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/10-ua-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-519 - Write IER for 2.7.x as needed [on Simon Harper - due 2011-03-17].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: kford Inferring ScribeNick: kford Present: Jim Jeanne Greg Simon Kelly Kim Regrets: MarkH KimP JanR Found Date: 10 Mar 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/03/10-ua-minutes.html People with action items: jallan jeanne sharper simon WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]