W3C

- DRAFT -

Internationalization Core Teleconference

22 Dec 2010

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
matial, aphillip, kennyluck, [Microsoft], Gwyneth, aharon
Regrets
Felix, Norbert, Richard
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
Addison Phillips

Contents


<scribe> Scribe: Addison Phillips

<scribe> ScribeNick: aphillip

Agenda

Action Items

Ask the Korean HTML5 Interest Group what should happen if "word-break: keep-all" is used with "word-wrap: break-all"

kenny: more time needed

trackbot, close ACTION-9

<trackbot> ACTION-9 Publish list of bugs with status closed and then a separate list with bugs that there is potential working group objection for review at next meeting closed

Info Share

Bidi status

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Dec/0017.html

(burning issue on <br>)

<scribe> ACTION: all: review closed HTML bugs and send any objections to the list by end of year (see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Dec/0013.html) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/22-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - all

<aharon> zakimj, unmute me

aharon: one item I proposed was to deal with <br> element
... html4 defined <br> as bidi whitespace
... not supposed to be used as paragraph separator
... people are not using <br> as defined in spec
... but as newline (i.e. a paragraph break)
... if used that way, then should not be bidi whitespace
... so many cases of obviously wrong ordering
... so proposed to fix as para separator
... two part proposal
... 1) make as default a bidi para sep
... 2) allow control over behavior of <br> using a bidi break attribute
... new attribute rejected; didn't want to add
... originally not happy about changing because doesn't make sense when used as it is "supposed" to be used
... eventually convinced HTML that there was a lack of interop
... and it won't go away and so accepted
... so <br> now stands as para sep
... 1 week ago, someone noticed that IE7 and earlier treated as para sep

<kennyluck> [That person is Simon Montagu]

aharon: but IE8 and later treat as whitespace in 'standards' mode

addison: change in IE not a reason to change spec?

aharon: if IE comes into consistent performance with Mozilla, maybe they would remove

<kennyluck> +1 to reopen the bug. They changed the spec by the reasoning that the spec should be aligned with IE, but this is not true.

addison: IE doing it or not is not the important issue

kennyluck: we are not giving them the right information about IE, so need to report correctly

aharon: so what do we want to recommend as a WG?

addison: what's the best thing to do for bidi support?

aharon: two reasons; one bidi and one interop

addison: compatibility is helpful in making our argument, but it isn't the same thing as being our argument

aharon: so you're saying: reopen. there is more interop, but still same case for bidi

addison: yes

kennyluck: open a new bug with focus on use case instead of solution basically a refined version of our issue2

aharon: there were two bugs, one asked for bidi break attribute
... and there was reaction that there was no way that they'd do a new attribute

<kennyluck> aharon: The good news is that paragraph separator and line seaprators start to get supported.

<kennyluck> br { content: PARAGRAPH SEPARATOR }

kennyluck: would this use case solve your use cases

<kennyluck> (the current default is br { content: \A } )

<kennyluck> (\A is bidi white space)

addison: so question before WG is: should <br> be whitespace or paragraph separator

kenny: no opinion

addison: think we should stick with paragraph sep

aharon: should remain paragraph separator
... however we'd be in the minority on public-i18n-bidi

<scribe> ACTION: aharon: write to i18n public groups and ask for opinion on whether <br> should be a paragraph separator or whitespace to be used to determin consensus [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/22-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-10 - Write to i18n public groups and ask for opinion on whether <br> should be a paragraph separator or whitespace to be used to determin consensus [on Aharon Lanin - due 2010-12-29].

addison: do we want to cover any of the potential reopens today?

aharon: save for next time

AOB?

next meeting: skip a week?

Next meeting 5 January 2011

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: aharon: write to i18n public groups and ask for opinion on whether <br> should be a paragraph separator or whitespace to be used to determin consensus [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/22-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: all: review closed HTML bugs and send any objections to the list by end of year (see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Dec/0013.html) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/22-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
 
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$Date: 2010/12/22 15:40:51 $

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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Mantagu/Montagu/
Succeeded: s/new use case/focus on use case instead of solution basically a refined version of our issue2/
Succeeded: s/your issues/your use cases/
Found Scribe: Addison Phillips
Found ScribeNick: aphillip
Default Present: matial, aphillip, kennyluck, [Microsoft], Gwyneth, aharon
Present: matial aphillip kennyluck [Microsoft] Gwyneth aharon
Regrets: Felix Norbert Richard
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Dec/0019.html
Got date from IRC log name: 22 Dec 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/12/22-i18n-minutes.html
People with action items: aharon all write

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