See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 16 December 2010
<JF> greg, yes
<janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
<janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
<janina> agenda: this
<scribe> scribenick: oedipus
<Leonie_Watson> scribe: Leonie_Watson
<trackbot> ACTION-85 -- Janina Sajka to find someone to create a change proposal for ISSUE-80 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/80 -- due 2010-12-09 -- OPEN
<oedipus> GJR: has volunteered to help leonie should she need it
<trackbot> ACTION-86 -- Everett Zufelt to create change proposal for ISSUE-133 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/133 -- due 2010-11-22 -- OPEN
<kliehm> ISSUE-133 has been closed on 14 December
<trackbot> ACTION-87 -- Everett Zufelt to create change proposal for ISSUE-134 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134 -- due 2011-01-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> ACTION-90 -- Michael Cooper to do gap analysis between embedded content use cases and existing support -- due 2010-12-09 -- OPEN
JS: One other item not captured in actions - Everett to give us new language for drag and drop
SF: Drop zone attrib was added in response to the issue.
<oedipus> note that Gez worked on this issue, too -- don't know his schedule, but might pick up the action?
CS: Is there anyone who understands Everett's position?
SF: Suggest Gez.
GJR: We had an approach some
while ago, based on Gez's thoughts.
... I can start a conversation with Gez and Everett to try and understand the situation.
<MichaelC> ACTION: rosmaita find someone to work on change proposal for drag and drop - due 5 Jan 2011 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-93 - find someone to work on change proposal for drag and drop [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2011-01-05].
<trackbot> ISSUE-142 does not exist
JF: Another action? On the video and poster issues - issue 142.
JS: How should we move on this?
JF: I'm putting together a change proposal, it's a complex topic and both perspectives have merit.
<MichaelC> ACTION: foliot to draft change proposal for html-issue-142 video (poster alt) - due 13 Jan 2011 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-94 - draft change proposal for html-issue-142 video (poster alt) [on John Foliot - due 2011-01-13].
JS: Media, is there a time frame in the HTML WG around elevating a bug to an issue?
<oedipus> Canvas Minutes: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas/Minutes
CS: It's the 2nd January.
JS: Would like us to start thinking about a F2F in the first six months of next year.
<oedipus> GJR will not be at CSUN
<oedipus> SF, CS, JS will be at CSUN
JS: Talking with MS and MC, is CSUN a good place/time to meet?
<JF> ACTION: Media Sub Team to revisit bug 11395 assign to John Foliot Due Jan 6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Media
<JF> ACTION: John Foliot - Media Sub Team to revisit bug 1195 due Jan. 6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-95 - Foliot - Media Sub Team to revisit bug 1195 due Jan. 6 [on John Foliot - due 2010-12-23].
<oedipus> CS: MS already have a room reservation
<oedipus> a lot of people going to SXSW and CSUN
JF: Will need to get back to work the week after.
CS: Could we look at holding the meeting during CSUN?
JS: It's unreasonable for us to assume that three months from now we'll have everything finished & we need to get our ducks in a row.
<oedipus> the whole forms section needs to be reviewed and discussed
CS: Is March/CSUN too late?
JF: Could we do it on the Sunday perhaps?
JS: It's not ideal, but we've done it in the past.
<oedipus> timeline to last call (MJS) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Sep/0074.html
<oedipus> "Mar 22, 2011 - all calls for counter-proposals complete Consequences of missing this date: if any issue has only one proposal, we call for consensus on that proposal."
<oedipus> " Feb 23, 2011 - every issue has at least one Change Proposal = Consequences of missing this date: issues will be closed without prejudice and marked POSTPONED; can be reconsidered during LC or for a later version of HTML.
JF: Last day of SxSW is first day of CSUN.
JS: We'll think about doing someting around CSUN, but we're aware of complications/overlaps with other events around that time. Let's look at the Monday after CSUN.
CS: Instead of two full days before/after, could we do several smaller chunks during the conference itself?
GJR: The real deadline is 23rd Feb, that's the date by which each issue must have a change proposal.
CS: Perhaps we should look at a date in early Feb?
<Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say real "deadline" is 23 february 2011
MC: 8 week notice is best practice, think we're allowed to have less notice if the whole WG doesn't object, but it's generally a bad idea.
<oedipus> GJR: what about virtual face 2 face meetings -- 2 or 3 or 4 hour chunks
JF: If we had a full list of issues we wanted to discuss at a F2F, we could bring it to the chairs and explain we'll be meeting in March to discuss in detail.
JS: We need to look at our collective availability in/around CSUN, and also for the week of 13th Feb.
<oedipus> plus 1 to week of 13th
+1 to week/c 13th
<oedipus> Note: January 22, 2010 is the cutoff for escalating bugs for pre-LC consideration - all issues in tracker, calls for proposal issued by this date = Consequences of missing this date: any further escalations will be treated as a Last Call comment.
<JF> If we go in Feb., I can research a room at Stanford if required - offer is there
<oedipus> my issue-122 ACTION: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/purely_decorative_images
GJR: My thoughts on issue 122 are
ready to forward I think.
... We had general agreement on the wording during TPAC, and I've tried to explain this perspective to Laura as well.
<inserted> scribenick: oedipus
LW: previous TF work on
... change proposal is to forbid @title as substitute for @alt -- title is for additional meta-info about the element
VERBOSE DESCRIPTOR REQUIREMENTS -- full document at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs
1. A programmatic mechanism to reference a specific set of structured content, internal or external to the document containing the described image.
2. A way to inform users and authors that a description is present/available.
3. A device independent way to access the descriptive content.
4. An explicit provision that accessing descriptive content, whether internal or external to the document containing the image, does NOT take the user away from the user's position in the document containing the image where the verbose descriptor was invoked;
5. A way to provide user control over exposition of the descriptor so that rendering of the image and its description is not an either/or proposition. (A visual indicator of the description should NOT be a forced visual encumbrance on sighted users by default).
6. A method to reference a longer description of an image, without including the content in the main flow of a page.
logged as HTML WG Bug 10853: HTML5 Lacks A Verbose Descriptor Mechanism http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10853
GJR: have use cases, etc at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs
<Stevef> Leonie_Watson what's the issue you are writing a change proposal for?
<inserted> scribe: Leonie_Watson
JS: 3rd item is that we look at use today
GJR: I think that's already been done, Laura added to the info page.
JS: In January let's look to
putting together a reconsideration response.
... 4th, a discussion of backwards/forwards support.
<oedipus> GJR: needs to add implementation notes (with big thanks to JF!)
JS: Value of ARIA is that it applies in a host neutral manner
<JF> no objection here
GJR: Janina's points covered everything.
<oedipus> ...content. 4. An explicit provision that accessing descriptive content, whether internal or external to the document containing the image, does NOT take the user away from the user's position in the document containing the image where the verbose descriptor was invoked; 5. A way to provide user control over exposition of the descriptor so that rendering of the image and its description is...
<oedipus> ...not an either/or proposition. (A visual indicator of the description should NOT be a forced visual encumbrance on sighted users by default). 6. A method to reference a longer description of an image, without including the content in the main flow of a page. actual requirements logged as bug logged as HTML WG Bug 10853: HTML5 Lacks A Verbose Descriptor Mechanism http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/s
JS: Where do we stand on this?
<MichaelC> action-95 due 6 Jan 2011
<trackbot> ACTION-95 Foliot - Media Sub Team to revisit bug 1195 due Jan. 6 due date now 6 Jan 2011
GJR: Still in progress, need to
catch up with the triage team.
... If anyone has time, please review the forms section.
... Parts of the spec concern me.
SF: Which bits in particular?
GJR: To make sure that the accessibility isn't lost, went from web forms as a separate doc to part of the whole, and there are things I need to untangle in my own mind.
SF: Can read through in early January, in time for 13th.
<JF> propose we have a longer call on the 13th. Could we start an hour earlier that day?
JF: Let's take this to the list.
JS: Good suggestion, let's do it.
<inserted> scribenick: oedipus
<inserted> scribenick: oedipus
GJR: Steve would you take the lead on forms since you've done the most extensive research in the area?
JS: can we speak about forms as main content of 6 january 2011 meeting?
SF: holiday -- won't be available
GJR: Steve, could you post your thoughts on forms in HTML5 to the list around the beginning of new year?
resume meetings 6 January 2011 same time, IRC channel, and passcode
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