HTML-A11Y telecon

20 Oct 2010

See also: IRC log


Eric_Carlson, Judy, Janina, silvia, John_Foliot, Mike


<scribe> agenda: this


Identify Scribe

<scribe> scribe: janina

Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open

Action 54 needs to be closed. Janina will do.

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 54

<silvia> close ACTION-54

<trackbot> ACTION-54 Follow up that NCAM files can be used in HTML5 testbed closed

Also, close action 65.

<silvia> close ACTION-65

<trackbot> ACTION-65 Will review threads on getting spec text in closed

Status Updates & Brief Reports; User Reqs; Added Spec Text; Open Subtitles; Etc.

Did that help?

silvia: between janina and me, we've covered things in user reqs and in email

janina: also, user reqs will move under html chairs guidance to close soon
... re spec text as we requested -- our request for tech neutrality not met

eric: think we should file bugs

Conversation proceeds with our concern that W3C not publish anything with technology specific solutions, especially not in a heartbeat.

Janina will forward her mail to Paul to Judy. This was the mail that expressed concern about publishing with tech specific solutions.

We're unclear what is included in heartbeat.

Sam's message came to Janina and also to public-html. Janina forwarded it to public-a11y-html

Judy will lead on anything we might still be able to do about publication.

Silvia: Should we discuss changes on list?

John: Yes

Silvia: Very keen for input esp from Philip and Eric

John: So, we're looking to make spec tech neutral? That's first?

Janina I have an rcs of changes

<JF> Silvia you are breaking up badly

<silvia> my proposal is to start the discussion of what bugs we should report on the mailing list

It was me

Silvia: Proposes we discuss on list of the changes we want.
... Still want to ref websrt as a baseline, though it needn't be the only implemented one, want to keep it in timeline though.

John: Concern that websrt undefined in w3c space
... Had understood that we wanted to be fully agnostic

Judy: Strong +1 on that

Eric: Minor correction -- WebSRT is well spec'd at both w3c and what at this point

judy: also unaware that it's spec'd in w3c space

eric: parsing is precise as in the html spec

judy: but this is a leap, if the group working on media hasn't agreed on it.

OK, I'm supposedly back, but I have no audio. Trying again ...

Argh, still no audio!

Trying to dial in, but still have no audio!

I'm back ...

John: Silvia, you wanted to see something from websrt remain, can it be made agnostic?

Silvia: I think that's a misunderstanding
... we need a baseline codec -- we need this for external text formats
... all browser discussion i've had in the pst months suggest that websrt, while it needs improvements, is not a bad format for baseline and lots of people are looking at implementing it.
... it would be bad if it were the only format we're lookikng to implement

Judy: But that's exactly the concern, we shouldn't implement something we haven't consensed

Eric: agree we need a req for baseline, but the decision needs to come out of the broader wg
... it's really important that browser vendors can start implementing now to identify issues, and that's orthogonal to what ends up being spec'd

Judy: So, we need it to gain knwledge. Are we OK that it won't confuse people?

eric: we should remove references from the spec, and the html-wg needs to decide as the wider group on what to use as a baseline

silvia: you're right. i've changed me mind. I'm confusing trial implementations with what's in the spec

john: if it's to be a spec we look at, it does need to be in w3c space

eric: no issue with that

silvia: propose we get websrt completely out of the w3c spec
... then a separate doc that proposes websrt, so we can discuss it fully independently of any other contender

judy: can i ask for confirmation that we're all on the same page?
... it sounds like we all want refs to websrt out

<silvia> proposal: 1. remove all websrt reference from http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/ - probably needs bug reports; 2. evaluate http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/websrt.html independently as a possible baseline format (not sure if 2. needs to go into W3C space for the evaluation to take place)

janina: +1

john: believe all of us on the call agree

eric: whatever we suggest should be clear that there should be no ref to a format, whether ttml or websrt, because there hasn't been a decision
... not sure it's important to move a description of websrt into w3c space at this point
... what's important is to open a discussion

<silvia> +1 on eric

<silvia> ack

Media Related Bugs--Status & Next Steps

john: I've filed several bugs, Ian pointed them all on me
... filed to make the filing deadline

janina: the clear audio is a misunderstanding. clear audio is only created at production. the spec and user agents are not implicated

eric: fully agree

john: also a bug on pausing audio ...

Silvia: there's an identical bug -- so we have duplicated bug

<silvia> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10941

Silvia: suggest closing the later as a duplicate of the former

john: allow user

pausing the bugzilla discussion now that Mike has joined re heartbeat spec publication

Judy: introducing our understanding that spec text now added but without neutralizing tech specific solutions
... is it in the heartbeat?
... It would be a significant problem for us if that is so, because it's not our consensed direction, and would have negative effects on our public veracity

<MikeSmith> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/html5/spec/Overview.html

<silvia> Thu Oct 14 22:31:55 2010 UTC (6 days ago) by ihickson <- when the change occurred

Janina waves at Dave

Judy: we very much want not to have tech specific solutions in the heartbeat

<silvia> Revision http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/html5/spec/Overview.html?rev=1.4510&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup

<MikeSmith> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/html5/spec/Overview.html?rev=1.4514&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup

I've lost audio!

I'm back!

Ah, must be packet loss here -- I'm gone again

Mike: Not my decision, unfortunately. Need to contact chairs on this.

Judy: Are we willing to not have these media sections at all, if that means we cannot get tech neutral into this heartbeat?

General ascent

Judy: seems the reversion shouldn't delay publication?

Mike: They will insist that changes need discussion

Judy: But it seems to us that a change has gone that didn't get discussion

Silvia: noting that unrolling one day would do it

Mike: that's possible

<silvia> Revision http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/html5/spec/Overview.html?rev=1.4509&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup

Mike: So are we ok with 1.4509?

judy: would there be unrelated changes that would be lost with surhc a revision? Or is it only our part?

<silvia> revision 1.4509 has no mention of WebSRT and is from Oct 14

<MikeSmith> MikeSmith: this was my mistake to begin with

<MikeSmith> MikeSmith: I should not have used the 1.4514 revision to begin with, should have rolled by to a previous rev

<MikeSmith> MikeSmith: I will roll back to the Oct 12 state

Mike: Actually rolling back to 14494 as it's the version that was prep'd following the decision to go heartbeat

Thanks, Mike!

John: returning to bugs
... also a bug to make alternate versions visible
... do we know it's in the spec?


John: I'll check

<MikeSmith> cheers

Summary of Action Items

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Default Present: Eric_Carlson, Judy, Janina, silvia, John_Foliot, Mike
Present: Eric_Carlson Judy Janina silvia John_Foliot Mike
Got date from IRC log name: 20 Oct 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/10/20-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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        <scribe> pausing the bugzilla discussion now that Mike has joined re heartbeat spec publication

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