See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 28 September 2010
hi
ok
<mhausenblas> thanks!
ok Michael
<mhausenblas> scribenick: boris
thanks
PROPOSAL:
topic
admin
accept minutes last meeting
<mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2010/09/21-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
(sorry)
+1
RESOLUTION: WG has accepted the minutes
<mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/open
<mhausenblas> ACTION-72
<mhausenblas> ACTION-72?
<trackbot> ACTION-72 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to list issues re Datalog approach re PK, FK, etc -- due 2010-09-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/72
mhausenblas: 72 is done ..
... ericP: are you ok?
<mhausenblas> close ACTION-72
<trackbot> ACTION-72 List issues re Datalog approach re PK, FK, etc closed
mhausenblas: clean up a bit the rest of the actions
<mhausenblas> ACTION: Hausenblas to clean up the actions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-rdb2rdf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-73 - Clean up the actions [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2010-10-05].
Souri: we don't have a draft yet,
but working on it
... copy an old SPARQL recommendation and put things there
...
... to discuss sth with richard
... after the discussion today, we have some content there ....
html document seems working fine
... should be able to be done this friday, probably
something
... if richard has time as well
mihausenblas: what part is technically stuff, and what part is the content?
souri: hhalpin can help with the html
richard: technically side, is
hard to get some version control, to all have access to the cvs
...
... content side, we don't have so much yet
....: we need brainstorm things, and discuss
souri: I have some idea what to
write ... the content to provide the syntax in turtle
....: then send to richard to take a look
<mhausenblas> Michael: will follow-up with Harry to sort out the technically issues
richard: among the 3 editor have
to talk the number of issues for creating the language
...
....: we can use the time now, or schedule sth later
mhausenblas: we can take some
time here ... if it won't take so longer
....: use the wiki?
richard: I don't like the idea of using the wiki
<ericP> there's no misery like wiki layout misery
souri: we could you use the telco
to discuss the schema and the example
... once we have the cvs we can use it for collaboration
richard: as soon as the cvs works the check-in the things
souri: look at the turtle syntax
and xml syntax
... translate xml syntax to turtle syntax and an extended
example
... can we discuss that today, and agree for the core
content
mhausenblas: what wiki page?
<Souri> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/R2RML_Schema_in_Turtle
souri: url of the schema
<Souri> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Example_of_SQL-based_RDB2RDF_Mapping:_Revision_3
souri: now the url of the
example
... extended example
... look at the schema, is very tiny ...
... is it ok or not?
...: ideally to use owl .. we decided not to use
it
....: e.g. cardinality constraint ... this requires owl, so we
remove it
richard: can we take later it later? to what extended we need it .... for the definition of the language it doesn't matter
souri: I agree
... to complex otherwise
... later on we can decide
richard: questions .....
... the terminology in the example and the schema, there are
some things .... that are inspired in owl more than rdf
souri: examples
richard: for example, class map
definition
... rdf level, class is not defined, it is in rdfs
... instance is just a resource
<dan> +q
souri: we use rdfs ....
... in your example you are using classmap
richard: the turtle example just
translates things from xml example
... stick to RDF terminology in general
... be aware in which section we need upper levels
souri: worry about the simple
idea of classes, seems to clarify things
... not owl, but RDF(S) classes are simple, class and subclass
hierarchy
... jump from RDF to RDF(S) is minimal, not to OWL
... RDF(s) is clear to the reader
dan: I agree with that ... this
is not rdf or rdf(s) discussion
....: we need to consider when we are going to be successful
.... rdf community, database community .... we should be aware
.... data quality?
(sorry not hearing very well dan)
mhausenblas: table of the contents?
souri: schema and example
... every aspect of the schema has to be explain
... for each class, what properties, so on
... then some examples and justifications
... some cases at risk, computational risks
... this can be the content right now
... we can improve it later on
richard: two parts .... one part
explain what is going here
... second part specific partes
... what is good for, who reads this document
souri: notations, user guide and then some reference
richard: sort of one page of
overview that explains the approach of the language ....
....: slides from alex to take this as an example ..... sth of
the query and then explain how this is translated in rdf
... after we can go after the individual features, class maps,
FK, PK, ..
mhausenlas: what is the doc about? after we read the doc what we can do?
richard: after reading the doc,
we will be able to write R2RML docs
... you can't implement the language if you can understand the
language
mhausenblas: what we want to provide
richard: specification of the
language
... all the knowledge necessary for writing a mapping
document
... an implementor has to know all the of things related to the
language
... not proposing an implementation
... this is a reference, go to the things one by one
... ideal reader, someone who really wants to learn the
language
mhausenblas: we should provide some guidance .... not so much details ...
souri: looking at the sparql doc.
....
... introduction, conventions
... then informative chapter
<Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say that traditionally, w3c writes for implementers
souri: we can follow the same
ericP: job 1 communicate to
implementors, answers and test cases
... job 2 users
...: sparql doc pattern in the default mapping
richard: agrees to eric
... one priority: how all it works
... two: be readable to users ... examples, basic
... for now let's focus on the first part
... details of the language
... later on we can explore on how to present the things to
general users
<mhausenblas> Michael: made different experience in RDFa case (primer - http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-rdfa-primer/ , and syntax - http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/)
richard: for now focus only on
specificy later on ...
... on the job 2
mhausenblas agree with the approach
....: not saying to have two separate documents
... each section clearly specifies for whom is
richard: we have to see if we can have two documents or one
<Zakim> juansequeda, you wanted to ask about experience of having different documents instead of one
richard: but later on
<ericP> also, traditionally, w3c relies on o'reilly for user-facing docs, but we've been a bit more merciful about that recently
juansequeda: I don't see the problem of having 2 docs
richard: to souri, the basic
building block in all of the different parts of the proposal
... the classmap is the basic block
... about the view map .... the things written there ... I
agree with SQL query ... but this not one to one map to
class
... dynamically computed classes .... each row map to different
class
... what is your opinion of this
souri: we should take that into
account ... this is a first draft quickly
...: your mechanism was a view map .....
....: right now is not taking into account ....
... do not change the fundamental aspect, just a small aspect
...
... definition of the schema won't change a lot
... we can think on some extensions of the schema ... once we
have the fundamental
... let's get the first working draft, and then we can continue
working on that
mhausenblas: continue to this subject, ok?
richard: totally agree with there
are a lot of features to discuss
... consider the time, get the basics
... several features after the FWPD
... this view map, can make some fundamental differences in how
you think about the language
... important to have an agreement or concensus on this
souri: viewmap collapses into
classmaps ...
... use classmaps or viewmaps .... in principle we have an
agreement to allow one class or many classes ... many to many
rels
... more on syntax ..
... we can discuss on this ...
... it's important ... but let's leave it out for now ...
t
... after the FWPD ... we can fix this aspect
mhausenblas: end of week?
souri: yes ... end of week
... focus on completeness and then the details
mhausenblas: pls use the mailing
list ...
... to discus things
richard: ... in terms of process ... for now in html
souri: starting working with the
sparql doc and then replace things there
... then send mail to the list
richard: working in chapter X,
and the other in chapter Y
... use the list?
... email as version system?
<mhausenblas> [adjourned]
I did it
<mhausenblas> trackbot, end telecon
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found ScribeNick: boris Inferring Scribes: boris Default Present: mhausenblas, MacTed, +49.153.6.aaaa, boris, juansequeda, Souri, cygri, nunolopes, +1.512.633.aabb, dan, Seema, ericP Present: mhausenblas MacTed +49.153.6.aaaa boris juansequeda Souri cygri nunolopes +1.512.633.aabb dan Seema ericP Regrets: Ashok Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Sep/0050.html Found Date: 28 Sep 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-rdb2rdf-minutes.html People with action items: hausenblas[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]