<trackbot> Date: 08 July 2010

<mjs> good day

<pimpbot> Title: FW: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-07-08: actions, issues, decisions, revised proposals, future surveys, TF reports from Paul Cotton on 2010-07-07 (public-html@w3.org from July 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

<paulc> test

<paulc> Having trouble joining call.

<paulc> Maciej: Are you ready to take minutes?

<krisk> zakim Microsoft.a is krisk

<MikeSmith> mjs, you calling in?

<mjs> MikeSmith: yes, just fumbling the dialing a bit, I should be in shortly

<paulc> Who is here?

<paulc> test

<MikeSmith> scribe: MikeSmith

ACTION items due by Thursday, July 8

<paulc> No action items are due.

New Issues This Week

<paulc> None

Working Group decisions

<mjs> paulc, I'm in now

<scribe> scribe: mjs

<paulc> issue-30?

<trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for images -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-30 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-30 and ISSUE-88 are two issues that had surveys close last week

issue-88?

<trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Should meta/@content allow a list of languages instead of just a single language? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/88

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-88 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

95, 96 and 97 are outstanding - the chairs are working on all 3 of those

<paulc> Issue-95?

<trackbot> ISSUE-95 -- Remove/Discard the Hidden Attribute -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/95

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-95 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

we apologize for the backlog

<paulc> issue-96?

<trackbot> ISSUE-96 -- Remove/Discard the Progress Element -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/96

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-96 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc> Issue-97?

<trackbot> ISSUE-97 -- Remove/Discard the Meter Element -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/97

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-97 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

Issues needing revised proposals

<paulc> The Chairs will be requesting revised proposals for the following issues.

on issues 31, 56, 80, 85 and 100, we asked for revised proposals

<paulc> Issues 31, 56, 80, 85, 100

<paulc> Issue-31?

<trackbot> ISSUE-31 -- What to do when a reasonable text equivalent is unknown/unavailable? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-31 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc> Issue-56?

<trackbot> ISSUE-56 -- Bring "URLs" section/definition and IRI specification in alignment. -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/56

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-56 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc> Issue-80?

<trackbot> ISSUE-80 -- document conformance and device dependent display of title attribute content -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/80

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-80 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc> issue-85?

<trackbot> ISSUE-85 -- ARIA roles added to the a element should be conforming in HTML5 -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/85

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-85 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc> issue-100?

<trackbot> ISSUE-100 -- Remove the srcdoc attribute from the HTML5 specification -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/100

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-100 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc> Laura updated 31, Adam will update 56

Adam Barth responded on issue-56, saying he would update it in time

<paulc> It appears that the 85 item is abandoned.

On issue-85, steve f said it was abandoned

<paulc> These revisions are due on Jul 15.

Issues ready for survey processing

upcoming surveys

<paulc> We will consider starting surveys on Issue 4 and 84.

Surveys likely coming soon on ISSUE-4 and ISSUE-84

Julian pointed out that Larry is on holiday

<paulc> Other surveys are for 101 and 103

others under consideration: 101, 103

<paulc> issue-4?

<trackbot> ISSUE-4 -- HTML Versioning and DOCTYPEs -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/4

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-4 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc> Issue-101?

<trackbot> ISSUE-101 -- Spec reference for US-ASCII -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/101

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-101 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc> issue-103?

<trackbot> ISSUE-103 -- XML escaping in iframe/@srcdoc -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/103

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-103 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

Julian: I wanted to know if the issue 100 might make issue 103 moot

<paulc> The outcome of issue-103 depends on issue-100.

paulc: so your advice is to make 103 dependent on first processing 100

Julian: yes

<paulc> Julian: it might save some time to hold issue-103 until we dispose of issue-100.

linked issues

paulc: any other comments?
... we had a call for consensus on issue 105
... as a result of follow-on discussion, we realized issues 74 and 105 need to be treated together
... both extended to a common date of July 30th

<paulc> issue-74?

<trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- How accessibility works for <canvas> is unclear. -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/74

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-74 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: any comments?

<paulc> issue-105?

<trackbot> ISSUE-105 -- allow image maps on the canvas element -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/105

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-105 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

task force reports

TF reports

paulc: testing task force first

krisk: we had a meeting recently
... we approved 45 test cases

<krisk> 11 xhtml5

<krisk> 3 audio

<krisk> 12 vidoe cases

<krisk> 11 canvas cases

<krisk> 10 foreign content cases

krisk: there are more test cases that still need to be approved
... one issue that came up - should SVG be overflow: auto or clipped?
... I think a spec needs to be updated, I'm not sure if it's HTML5 or SVG

<paulc> ACTION: krisk and Testing TF to open bug on default mode when embedding SVG in HTML [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - krisk

mjs: I think this is an issue for the SVG spec

paulc: make sure to mention relevant sections in both HTML and SVG

<krisk> try kkrueger

<paulc> ACTION: kkrueger and Testint TF to open bug on default mode when embedding SVG in HTML [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-html-wg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-183 - And Testint TF to open bug on default mode when embedding SVG in HTML [on Kris Krueger - due 2010-07-15].

krisk: we need a harness for these tests

<paulc> krisk: next week the TF will take the Canvas tests (700+) not yet approved

<paulc> krisk: TF is working on figuring out how to get results for the current approved tests.

paulc: any other comments?

<paulc> krisk: I plan to submit something that will permit easier execution of the existing approved test cases.

<paulc> Next is the Accessbility TF

<MikeSmithX> http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-html-a11y-minutes.html

<pimpbot> Title: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference -- 08 Jul 2010 (at www.w3.org)

<MikeSmithX> http://www.w3.org/2010/07/01-html-a11y-minutes.html

<pimpbot> Title: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference -- 01 Jul 2010 (at www.w3.org)

<MikeSmithX> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements

<pimpbot> Title: Media Accessibility Requirements - HTML accessibility task force Wiki (at www.w3.org)

MikeSmithX: the focus currently is the media subteam
... working on requirements document

<MikeSmithX> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements#Captioning

<pimpbot> Title: Media Accessibility Requirements - HTML accessibility task force Wiki (at www.w3.org)

MikeSmithX: that includes a very high priority item, which is requirements for captioning

<Laura> HTML Accessibility Task Force Minute Archive: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Meetings/Minutes

<pimpbot> Title: Meetings/Minutes - HTML accessibility task force Wiki (at www.w3.org)

MikeSmithX: I think this will unblock the multitrack mechanism and the <track> mechanism
... was present and then removed
... requirements will be done by the end of this week
... after that we will begin to deal with the technical details

mjs: will the requirements document be submitted to the HTML WG

<paulc> Maciej: will Requirements document be submitted to the WG?

<MikeSmithX> issue-9?

<trackbot> ISSUE-9 -- how accessibility works for <video> is unclear -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/9

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-9 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<MikeSmithX> last deadline was May 27

MikeSmithX: last deadline was to submit the requirements document by May 27th

<MikeSmithX> so we are more than a month past the deadline we had set

MikeSmithX: I agree the next deliverable is the requirements document and it should be done ASAP

paulc: we also need a date for a proposed solution, in addition to the requirements document
... W3C Team is asking us when we are going to get to last call - if we don't have a date for this issue, it becomes the long pole
... I interrupted you earlier - would you like to continue?

MikeSmithX: along with this pending deadline for the requirements document, and a proposed solution on video, we also have an open item to provide a response about how ARIA should be integrated into HTML5

<MikeSmithX> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html

<pimpbot> Title: ARIA - HTML5 proposal (at www.paciellogroup.com)

<MikeSmithX> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5

<pimpbot> Title: ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5 - HTML WG Wiki (at www.w3.org)

MikeSmithX: Steve F wrote a Change Proposal and opened a bug

<Laura> Steve's Bug: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10066

<paulc> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-085

<pimpbot> 1110066: faulkner.steve@gmail.com, P2, NEW, 13replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided

<pimpbot> Title: Change Proposal Status (at dev.w3.org)

<MikeSmithX> issue-85?

<trackbot> ISSUE-85 -- ARIA roles added to the a element should be conforming in HTML5 -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/85

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-85 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

MikeSmithX: this is meant to be a proposal for how ARIA is allowed to be used in HTML

paulc: should bug 10066 be linked to issue 85, or does it make issue 85 moot?

<pimpbot> 11http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10066 faulkner.steve@gmail.com, P2, NEW, 13replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided

MikeSmithX: the latter

paulc: so issue 85 was a specific issue, and 10066 is more general

<MikeSmithX> issue-85: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10066

<trackbot> ISSUE-85 ARIA roles added to the a element should be conforming in HTML5 notes added

<pimpbot> 1110066: faulkner.steve@gmail.com, P2, NEW, 13replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided

<Laura> change proposal as it is superseded by the new proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0022.html

<pimpbot> Title: Re: ISSUE-85 anchor-roles partial Change Proposal from Steven Faulkner on 2010-07-08 (public-html@w3.org from July 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

paulc: we should update the Change Proposal page

MikeSmithX: we have been having some discussion about whether changes are needed for DnD

paulc: thanks for the report

<Laura> need implementor feedback on allowing keyboard activation of drag-and-drop events: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0260.html

<pimpbot> Title: Re: need implementor feedback on allowing keyboard activation of drag-and-drop events from Michael(tm) Smith on 2010-06-30 (public-html-a11y@w3.org from June 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

Other business

<paulc> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10083

<pimpbot> 1110083: shelleyp@burningbird.net, P2, REOPENED, 13Remove references to Microdata from within the document

paulc: Julian wanted to discuss bug 10083

<pimpbot> 11http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10083 shelleyp@burningbird.net, P2, REOPENED, 13Remove references to Microdata from within the document

Julian: I understand wanting to add useful information, but I don't think it's good to add information about Microdata but not RDFa

MikeSmithX: I responded in great detail in the bug
... I don't think this is a change in scope
... I think it's useful data
... I can see some people disagreed with publishing Microdata, but it is published as a deliverable
... I disagree with the argument that the markup language document can't reference other deliverables

paulc: there seems to be sentiment that this is undoing a previous decision

MikeSmithX: my document doesn't currently include any additional attributes from RDFa or from Microdata
... but there is a difference that is characteristic of Microdata - there is a closer binding between Microdata and the HTML language
... the corresponding information doesn't exist for RDFa

Julian: what I hear is that Mike is not intending to add RDFa or Microdata attributes

MikeSmithX: I'm saying that I haven't added them yet

Julian: people may be sensitive about this topic
... I'm confused about the Microdata reference

MikeSmithX: I believe I addressed this in comments about the bug
... I have other out-of-context information that is not directly tied, but is a helpful reference

Julian: is the current state temporary?

MikeSmithX: I do intend to add descriptions

paulc: if there is a Microdata reference and no RDFa reference, people will file bugs

MikeSmithX: there isn't equivalent information on RDFa to what I have for Microdata

Julian: I will have to think about it
... I think it's confusing

MikeSmithX: I disagree that it's confusing

paulc: I think one thing that would be valuable would be for you to describe in prose what you think the scope of the document is, beyond what the status section is, and what additional items may be needed in the spec

Julian: now that this is a WD, the WG should know more about the plans
... I don't necessarily disagree with where the document should go, but I'd like to know more about the plans

paulc: can you think about my plans?

MikeSmithX: thanks

scribe for next week

<paulc> Any volunteers?

(no volunteers)

<paulc> paul Cotton will volunteer to scribe next week.

adjournment

<paulc> Meeting ended at 12:58pm ET

<MikeSmithX> . RRSAgent, make minutes

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Possibly Present: CIA-1 Cynthia_Shelly Dashiva Eliot Hixie Julian Julian_Reschke Lachy Laura Laura_Carlson Maciej Mark Michael_Cooper Microsoft Mike MikeSmith MikeSmithX Philip Radhika_Roy Shunsuke Slaanesh Stevef Title Wayne_Carr Yudai aaaa aabb anne aroben arronei cshelly dmiles_afk drry ed_work_ gavin gavin_ gsnedders hober inimino issue-85 jgraham jmb johndrinkwater jwm karl kennyluck krijn krisk laplink matiassingers miketaylr mjs oedipus paulc phenny pimpbot scotfl shepazu sjm tlr trackbot webben
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Regrets: Gregory_Rosmaita
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0010.html
Found Date: 08 Jul 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-html-wg-minutes.html
People with action items: kkrueger krisk testing testint tf

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