<scribe> Scribe: Addison Phillips

<scribe> ScribeNick: aphillip

Minutes and Agenda review

Action Items

addison: forward date-time proposal to HTML WG

all: respond to Issue-88 survey on HTML-WG at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-88-objection-poll/

Info Share

richard: program cmte "multilingual web" event in Madrid
... just decided dates
... 26th and 27th of October
... surveying field of best practices

<r12a> List of topic areas in the wiki at this point in the meeting:

<r12a> Why & where it matters - Voice - Semantic Web - Social Web - W3C standards - Language resources - Content management and authoring tools - Language selection & navigation - MT - Localization standards & tools - TM databases - Text mining - Language technologies - Browser development - Usability and Design for i18n - Cultural aspects (from script support to cultural differences) - Web addresses (IDNs and IRIs) - Mobile Web - Cloud based issues - Crowd-sourcing - D

richard: "The Multilingual Web: Where are we?"
... and you are all welcome to come
... and you could all (nudge nudge) give a talk
... will be a call for papers soon

<b> and <i> tags document approval

http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-b-and-i-tags.en.php

richard: please approve for wide-review
... for publication in about a week

norbert: what does the HTML5 spec say
... html4 has some handwaving there
... but they all refer to some specific stylistic forms
... are you trying to change standard practice?

richard: why are we not deprecating these discussion a few years ago
... so we need to use them more sensibly
... and ian (hixie) incorped comments
... can't go away, but not necessarily presentational

Norbert: folks who use these really mean bold and italic
... so trying to change them to using better markup

<r12a> Addison: try saying that people use these things to mean bold and italic, but that is problematic for various reasons

<r12a> ... if you use these tags in template documents that can make it more complicated when you localise

david: area of tweaking; make point about japanese, but even some western typefaces cannot be bolded or italicized as well

<r12a> norbert: change </span> to </i>

<r12a> ... and 'we don't use in English'

<scribe> chair: all in favor of wide review?

addison: yes

norbert: yes

richard: should I use <b> with class name for slug lines?

HTML Issue-88

richard: summarizes his discussion with html chairs
... 1. the original change proposal is never mentioned
... response was that not updated recently
... and you have a different opinion now
... but they included hixie's old proposal
... 2. they mentioned that i18n WG
... has a different idea now
... point to my idea
... but its not a change proposal
... so you can't point to it/can't criticize it
... "too late for change proposals now"
... 3. to the extent that we apply any numerical analysis... but they say they won't weigh votes, only technical arguments
... not sure what to do about concerns
... need to express feelings in other proposals
... join html wg or write to chairs
... copy some lists if you write to chairs

addison: write to chairs and copy lists with respose of "mu"?

richard: options are:
... 1. hixies proposal that there is no problem (meta can have only one value and changes meaning)
... 2. hixie's propsal that makes content-language non-conforming in html5, removing possibility for validity
... have this problem that it is a meta tag and should be available for that
... 3. Leif's proposal is complicated but basically stay as currently but warn not to use in validator but do allow guessing if lang not available
... I though it makes sense, but doesn't steer anyone in the right direction
... our last option was "don't guess default language from meta/http header"
... otherwise all same as html4

definitely object to #1

endorse leif's proposal?

richard: possibly needs a couple of changes

fantasai: not valid not supported
... but inoperative is okay
... okay with guessing or not guessing lang from c-l

<fantasai> So, 4. It's valid, but doesn't have any effect (is effectively ignored)

<fantasai> I'm okay with 3 or 4

<fantasai> not 1 or 2

position proposal for wg: support leif's proposal, with a preference that content-language be severed (rendered inoperable), but can live with it

<scribe> chair: objections to this position?

<scribe> ACTION: all: respond to issue-88 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-core-minutes.html#action01]

<scribe> ACTION: addison: write Internationalization WG position response [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-core-minutes.html#action02]

AOB?

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/thing/event/
Found Scribe: Addison Phillips
Found ScribeNick: aphillip

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Addison Addison_Phillips Norbert P0 Richard ScribeNick aaaa aabb all core david fantasai joined najib r12a
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Regrets: Felix
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Jun/0009.html
Got date from IRC log name: 30 Jun 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-core-minutes.html
People with action items: addison all respond