Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference

21 May 2010

See also: IRC log


Stephen_Watt, Kaz_Ashimura, Tom_Underhill, Debbie_Dahl, Janina, Janina_Sajka, Chris_Lilley, Steven_Pemberton, Bert_Bos, Philippe_Le_H├ęgaret
Debbie, Chris


question on the permission for the minutes

debbie: to make minutes public?

[general agreement]

<ChrisL> these minutes will be public

InkML presentation

<ddahl> link to the slides from today -- http://www.w3.org/2002/mmi/2010/InkML/inkml.pdf

debbie: We focus on inkk ml

tomun: various scenario types--basically there are two
... mainly archival
... aimed at ink capture devices, tablet, pen
... so, capture ink and store it
... second scenario is streaming ink, chat, whiteboard, etc
... third is just the acknowledgement that these two primary might be combined somehow
... so looking at use cases ...
... streaming, among clients
... another is ink and smil
... capturing ink and voice, for instance and sync'd with smil to playback faithfully
... have a demo that turns these into power point
... then there's archive and retrieval
... stored in docs and used to store
... also supported search and analysis, as well as annotation of existing docs
... electronic form filing is an application of ink
... believe it's valuable for signature authentication
... then pen input and modality systems--language disambiguate
... so voice prompts may disambiguate ink

sw: sometimes write with finger rather than pen, is also captured

tomun: also use of gestures to control app, including multiple finger touch
... also multiple simultaneous user

sw: main idea is a sequence of points default x-y representation

tomun: intended for multiple devices from very low level hardware on up

sw: capable to store additional info with each point, force, angle, etc
... that leads to various ways to group -- and recognize
... supports associating xml or text with any x-y point
... of course, different devices means different dimensions and picsels

tomun: so, in office 2010 ...
... word, excel and powerpoint support ink
... now stored as w3c inkml
... simplest case is capture and render
... but also analyses during spare cycles
... analysis may resume after doc is saved and later retrieved
... reco for a variety of things, text area, area into paras, lines, words, etc., also math
... if i write ' the quick brown' and then circle it ...
... engine recognizes text and the circle as annotation of the text
... text recognition supports search, of course
... eventually, moving text will move its annotations as well

sw: we have a skype add on supporting shared ink during conversation
... we have a skype add on supporting shared ink during conversation

tomun: --showing example of signature use -- and its authentication
... also hifi rendering for zoom
... variable penforce is stored, so allows better fidelity and better forensic analysis
... and rich timestamping
... inkml stores what strokes when

sw: uncompressed, inkml smaller than rasterized data
... high compression supported because of rich data

tomun: --showing demo of inkml plus smil -- with mobile device
... photos of real world, ink annotated, plus voice annotation; all stored and time stamped
... have written a demo app that grabs these streams into animated powerpoint

<kaz> (Tom leaves)

sw: questions, anyone?

debbie: can inkml cooperate with capture api from web apps?
... believe this api was for video, or perhaps photos

<ChrisL> robin berjon could, if a question is sent to the list

sw: we've had success with various apps behind various apis, so it's possible

debbie: wonders about skype app in more detail

sw: one supported collab backbone is skype's
... allows people on different devices to share a screen
... but also a recorded wav plus timestamps on audio and stream
... next step is to attach recognition to this
... personal interest to reco math
... because hand written math is so different from keyboarded math
... now using a more portable java plugin so can support more devices
... but do not adhere to TOS for iPhone, so not there

debbie: likes the archiving

sw: good point
... important to understand that archive and streaming aren't really disjoint because semantics are added as more analysis is done
... so can become more organized with more knowledge over time

kaz: wonders about relation to xforms
... perhaps also passwd?

sp: shouldn't be difficult
... xforms has ability to capture the data

status of InkML specification

debbie: a word of where this is as a spec ...
... about to publish second last call
... interested in feedback from several groups

<ChrisL> svg can review it certainly

sw: html, svg, janina: wondering about a pf review

debbie: perhaps could make handwriting accessible

<ChrisL> AIDE Alternative Input Device Events

<plh-home> plh: we're been trying to add support for AIDE in the WebApps group charter. we ran into formal objections that we're trying to resolve at the moment. probably some relation with InkML?

debbie: so how to represent just a stroke?

sw: so pen can be touching surface, or not, and we record pen trajectory
... then higher level reco engine interprets
... width, height, and orientation can also be recorded -- so major/minor axis, and rotation
... pressure
... also traces that overlap in time
... can have long gestures in time, e.g. squeeze
... traces can be packetized in time, so a continuation from previous

debbie: any other questions?
... thinking of a 3-week review period

<ChrisL> sounds ok to me, svg has a f2f next week. let me know when its published

<ChrisL> thanks to all, interesting session

debbie: thanks to stephen and tom

action items

debbie: actions ...
... mine to be continued

chris: mine can be closed

next meeting

debbie: so next meeting, june 4, captioning


debbie: so media type for text/html in a later call?
... so media type for text/html in a later call?

plh: so a new definition from html5
... so who's affected? xhtml1?

sp: new def includes xh1?

plh: believe so
... but deprecated

sp: that's first step to disallow
... old xhtml group observed text/html delivered without problems--typical practice

plh: perhaps yes, perhaps no ...
... any xhtml 1.1 providing media type?

sp: a note that documents current practice, and which works, nothing normative
... also rdfa

plh: related to issue 41 in html
... ok, thanks

debbie: anything else for today?

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2010/05/21 17:32:38 $