28 Apr 2010

See also: IRC log


John_Foliot, Eric, Judy, +31.65.159.aaaa, Jim_Allan, Geoff_Freed, Janina_Sajka, +61.2.801.2.aabb, +61.3.986.4.aacc, +61.2.801.2.aadd


<JF> shall we start?

<JF> anyone volunteer to scribe?

<scribe> scribe: allanj

jf: issues from JB, needs statement

<silvia> is there a phone number to call?

<JF> 1 617 761 6200 (USA)

jb: We need a requirements document for work in the media area.
... sees there are some requirements. are they vetted? are they comprehensive?
... concern about technical and accessibility representation. wants WAI to have participation. requirements would help getting the right folks

jf: sylvia has done work for Mozilla, and put lots of information on the wiki
... are we missing something? who else should we contact?

<silvia> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Video_a11y_requirements

<silvia> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Timed_tracks

jb: impression from months back, was concerned about vetting and input, if they have been addressed, I'm Ok

sylvia: documents posted have had lots of input.
... requirements captions, transcript, audio description

<JF> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/MultimediaAccessibility

sylvia: basic requirements are not a problem. all agree. Issues are how to realize the requirements in practice on the web.
... doesn't feel need for additional requirements. Please review, comment as necessary.
... standstill, at the moment is the technical implementation
... one issue is synchronization of multiple video types (multiple angles, etc)

jb: 0there is a role for the requirements document., will review the pieces. wonders why not a whole.

js: may need a resolution that are requirements are at URI.

<silvia> this is our media accessibility requirements document: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Multimedia_Q%26A

js: perhaps wiki page. that way we have a starting point, and the problems we solved

jf: jb talked about other groups to review. do we have to chase after other groups, or say here is the info - review at will.

jb: looks like lots of groups have been approached. would like to know who, so I can use my contacts to forward the work of the group. need a single requirements. will commit to review these documents.

jf: in minutes of this meeting are lots of URI. could combine all requirements into one
... there are several technologies referencing similar things
... smile, etc. lots of overlap, hard to look 5 years in future.
... getting a sense of scale and timeline for a deliverable has not yet been done
... /s/smile/smil

dick: have been pointing out challenges. getting responses of 'too far down path a'
... long term vs short term. want to know constraints
... guidance on input needed,

sylvia: 'too far down the path'... only the implemented video element in html5.
... that is fixed. trying to make that accessible (captions, audio description)
... smil is out of scope.
... still a need to develop a larger picture, need to solve the short term problems

jf: having a requirements document may help focus efforts.
... smil and daisy have legitimate concerns.
... video is being used now. how do we solve that problem.

js: daisy should be on call

kenny: yes daisy is here.

jb: requirements would be good

jf: would help set timelines also

?? if something violate a longterm need but meets a shortterm need, how do we resolve.

multitrack api

dickbolterman: activation of embedded content tracks, this api meets this need.

resolution: the media sub team recommends the multitrack API at @@

media/text association

db: also related to item 3
... main concern - current vido and audo objects have multiple functions.
... content, selection, and time containers
... all are being integrated into one object
... tried to integrate SMIL processing model with 'switch'
... proble: introduction of time contaiiner. secheulde independent objects.
... we are not just choosing from among available tracks
... we are gathering different tracks from different places
... also links in captions
... pairing audio w/ video, should be same as pairing captions w/ video, or audio description w/ video

jf: technology is browse window. they are reaching the point that they can't do everything that a standalone player can
... do we focus on browsers as they are now, or what they can do in the future

db: absolutely browser window. reasonable that captions can be place on, above, below, etc the video. we are adopting old TV model. TV now is moving away from old model
... extended functionality can work in the current object.

sylvia: disagree with this model. mentioned video with time containers. in html5 video is only audio and video with one timeline. slideshows are a different thing.
... source selection with only 1 time line.
... switch element is out of html5
... tracks for captions and audio descriptions are not independent time ines.
... they are dependent on the one AV timeline. this is a big difference.
... need to solve accessibility first. other proposals are after this.

db: is one selection with one timeline can agree.
... if fetching a track comes in late then what happens.
... need to match time if things are coming from separate files.
... if you don't want this, then must define captions as embeded within video.
... could have many track, karoke, etc. they are real problems. and here now.

sylvia: map all timelines to the base video timeline. multiple files will not break this simple algorithm
... soucing from different servers. if things don't arrive at the same time, too bad. can't hold the video.

db: if you need the captions to get the information, then throwing them out is not a good plan.

sylvia: video won't start until captions are there.

db: if you have small device with long video. need to support the simple soulution first, but address the complex one in the future.

eric: media engine composed media files on demand.
... need to define specific rules about timing. all media must be there before it starts.
... not sure how this is different from what we have now.

db: is inside the video element the proper place to do the time composition.

eric: must agree with sylvia. already have this situation. media file is time container. and can reference external media

db: if you have embedding media, the rendering engine...

eric: not the case. the mdia samples may come from external file.
... there is one master timeline in the container. controled by the browser

db: hyperlinks in a text file, to link to other objects or navigate within a media. so the subbordinate textfile is controlling the parent object

sylvia: it doesn't matter. just points to an offset in the video

db: if in same file and point 20 sec into the future......

sh: that is not how timetext works.

db: author has to know what video encoding is being use.

sh: whichever is playing controls the clock. can sample forward or backward

Discussion of intricacies of timedtext and smil timing model

sh: what does a hyperlink actually do in a caption file. none of it has been defined.

jf: do we need to bring up hyperlinks in the requirements documents
... srt, dxfp, and styling of textfiles.
... accessibility, changing style is need.

<gfreed> just for the record, i think we do need to look at hyperlinking when the time is appropriate.

jf: can't do this with srt. then do we look a timedtext or dxfp
... but browsers say it is too complex.

db: need to keep options limited.
... text association models have different semantics

?? correction, srt will use the browser default style sheet, modifiable by the user.

jf: what about the author having some control?

eric: basic srt does not have this (styling by author)

jf: styling could allow placement of captions, above, below, bubbles, etc.

eric: need a solution to allow the author to style. otherwise, not going to fly.
... problem with dxfp is how stylse is expressed.

sh: xsfo has css properties through xsl.

gf: one model about styling on captions is repurposing captions from other media.
... may have colors fonts, etc so they can transfer to the web.

sylvia: dxfp problems, no support for ruby and i18n.

sh: not ruby markup but can display ruby text.

jf: srt doesn't support ruby either

sylvia: srt is simplistic solution. determining the requirements on whatwg
... ... what format exists to support stylihg requirement. currently, none.

jf: yikes!
... requiring ruby is a good thing.

sylvia: ian is mashingup and format to meet requirements. need feedback and comments.
... it will likely be the format speced

jf: this covers item 4 also
... time is ticking. htmwg is looking to solve or they will be closed.
... need to get a requirements document, need to focus on that, and try to set timeline
... and get started on the work
... html5 video is already on the web.

jb: number if a11y issues. media is an important issue. TF chairs wre working with html5 to move things along.
... coordination calls ongoing.
... this is a complicated area. discussion today reinforces the need for requirements.
... it comes up in every topic. reaching consensus on requirements is needed
... need one document
... htmlwg chairs understand that media needs to be done right, and will take some time.

js: underscore doing it 'right', timeline must be realistic.

regular telecons. have scheduled 10.

scribe: post one set of requirements. set short term goals, then see where we are
... need to get to a consensus

jf: need a single concensed requirements document. short term and long term. will create soon.

<scribe> ACTION: jf to create requirements a11y media accessibility document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/28-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-27 - Create requirements a11y media accessibility document [on John Foliot - due 2010-05-05].

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: will ahve conference call for next few weeks, then reassess frequency of calls

rssagent, make minutes

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: jf to create requirements a11y media accessibility document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/28-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/04/28 23:34:25 $

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: allanj
Inferring ScribeNick: AllanJ
Default Present: John_Foliot, Eric, Judy, +31.65.159.aaaa, Jim_Allan, Geoff_Freed, Janina_Sajka, +61.2.801.2.aabb, +61.3.986.4.aacc, +61.2.801.2.aadd
Present: John_Foliot Eric Judy +31.65.159.aaaa Jim_Allan Geoff_Freed Janina_Sajka +61.2.801.2.aabb +61.3.986.4.aacc +61.2.801.2.aadd

WARNING: No meeting title found!
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<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting

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Got date from IRC log name: 28 Apr 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/04/28-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: jf

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