RDFa in XHTML Task Force

Action Items

<manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionItems

<scribe> ACTION:  Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [DONE]

<scribe> ACTION:  Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action03] [DONE]

<manu> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa-vocab-20100111.html

<scribe> ACTION:  Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action05] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]on07! [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

Chartering process update

ivan: nothing new to report
... deadline is coming up. Need to contact a few people before then so we ensure people who expressed interest have a chance to sign up.

RDFa Working Group Authoring Tools

manu: some members have been kicking ideas around privately. looking at reSpec and CVS + something external for diffs

...reSpec worked reasonably well for doing the Vocabulary document

ivan: other tool sets seem to require installing lots of stuff - high barrier to entry

markbirbeck: original thought was to use Ant so it was possible to run things on different platforms... but that doesn't seem compatible with the model.

ivan: need to ensure that the references it produces are up to date

Steven_: only fear is how we are going to produce diff-marked versions. We need some way to produce these.

<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask if there is room to have it produce documents annotated with RDFa?

ShaneM: are you authoring in HTML or wysiwyg?

ivan: HTML(5).
... any RDFa that is put into the code would just stay there.

ShaneM: can we have it produce XHTML? Its a permitted format.

manu: seems like it would be a simple change.

ShaneM: CVS has the ability to run scripts - so we can have diffs generated automatically as part of the checkin

manu: we don't have a solution for PDF or for multi-page documents.
... a multi-page document is a document that is split into sections with a master table of contents

ivan: not convinced we need this because our specs are relatively small.

manu: having both versions is nice. Not necessarily a high priority.

ShaneM: W3C already uses html2ps for PDF generation, so... if we can identify the conventions that make that work it should be fine.

<manu> http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html

<scribe> ACTION: ShaneM to identify the requirements for html2ps and see about getting reSpec to support them. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

HTML RDFa heartbeat draft

<manu> http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html#preserving-namespaces-via-coercion-to-infoset

manu: specified rules for maintaining namespaces in the generated DOM.
... also added informative sections describing how infoset based and dom 2 based processors work

<manu> http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html#infoset-based-processors

<manu> http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html#dom-level-2-based-processors

feedback so far is fairly positive. no one is attempting to block publication at this time.

ShaneM: not excited about codifying implementation algorithms

manu: testing people from user agent vendors seem excited about understanding the implementation methodology to limit the possibility of incompatibilities in the future.

markbirbeck: likes it.

RDFa Vocabularies

<manu> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa-vocab-20100111.html

manu: Discussion about CORS

uncertain if CORS is actually implemented in major browsers.

ivan: if CORS is not available, this vocab proposal seems hard to support

markbirbeck: had a hack for Safari that would support doing cross site retrieval via an iframe - but that didn't work in other user agents.
... content negotiation should be part of the solution. there is no need for a rich new syntax. any existing syntax should be supportable. RDFa, HTML, JSON...

ivan: why doesnt cross domain security apply to JSON files?

markbirbeck: In the same way that you can get an image from any location into a page, you can refer to a script via an src attribute on another site. The code might not run, so you use something called JSONp. You return a function call, and the parameters are the data you want to get into the host application.
... would need a convention for emitting the right format (e.g. function call with parameters)

manu: concern about requiring a JSON parser then to handle vocabs.

<markbirbeck> document.meta.addMappings( { "foaf" : "http://..." } );

markbirbeck: the base format doesn't preclude parsing by non-JS environments. just need to strip off the beginning bit and parse through the name value pairs
... this doesn't impact authors. It effects vocabulary creators and parsers.

ivan: no problem if what we say is that at a given URI we have a JSON file. There is support for JSON in other languages like Python already.
... not as excited about content negotiation. Seems like this is an extra complication that we don't want to force our vocabulary authors to have to deal with.

manu: concern about how the information would get included in the document.

<manu> <script src="http://example.org/myvocab.js" /> ?

<markbirbeck> @vocab="http://example.org/myvocab"

<manu> var theVocab="HTML+RDFa DOCUMENT"; ?

shane: document.meta.parseRdfa("HTML+RDFa Document")

<markbirbeck> http://example.org/myvocab.js?callback=document.meta.addMappings

ivan: so a python system would use the basic URI - a JS implementation would append the callback CGI parameter

manu: could we require the servers to serve up other formats?

markbirbeck: Jeni is working on standardizing the format of data that is being returned from servers (RDF <-> JSON) etc.
... it would be nice if this effort and the linked data effort on mappings converge.

<markbirbeck> http://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/

manu: let's shift some of this discussion to the mailing list and get input from others

<manu> ShaneM: Here's are all the magic commands you'll ever need to know about scribing - http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm?content-type=text/html#Quick_Start_Guide