IRC log of rdfa on 2010-01-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:11:31 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rdfa

15:11:31 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc

15:11:36 [manu]

zakim, this will be rdfa

15:11:36 [Zakim]

ok, manu; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 49 minutes

15:11:55 [manu]

rrsagent, make logs public

15:11:58 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:11:58 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-minutes.html manu

15:12:13 [manu]

Meeting: RDFa in XHTML Task Force

15:12:17 [manu]

Chair: Manu Sporny

15:12:37 [manu]

Present: Manu_Sporny, Ivan_Herman, Shane_McCarron

15:12:41 [manu]

Regrets: Ben_Adida

15:13:10 [manu]

Scribe: Shane_McCarron

15:15:23 [manu]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2010Jan/0031.html

15:15:40 [manu]

Previous: http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html

15:16:50 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:16:50 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-minutes.html manu

15:58:06 [ShaneM]

ShaneM has joined #rdfa

15:58:41 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

15:58:48 [Zakim]

+??P0

15:58:51 [manu]

zakim, I am ??P0

15:58:51 [Zakim]

+manu; got it

15:58:56 [ivan]

zakim, dial ivan-voip

15:58:56 [Zakim]

ok, ivan; the call is being made

15:58:57 [Zakim]

+Ivan

15:59:05 [Steven_]

Steven_ has joined #rdfa

15:59:49 [Zakim]

+ShaneM

16:01:40 [ShaneM]

Scribe: ShaneM

16:01:50 [ShaneM]

TOPIC: Action Items

16:01:55 [manu]

http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html

16:02:05 [Steven_]

zakim, dial steven-617

16:02:09 [Steven_]

zakim, who is here?

16:02:12 [Zakim]

ok, Steven_; the call is being made

16:02:20 [Zakim]

+Steven

16:02:28 [Zakim]

On the phone I see manu, Ivan, ShaneM, Steven (muted)

16:02:33 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Steven_, ShaneM, RRSAgent, Zakim, manu, ivan

16:02:44 [Steven_]

zakim, who is muted?

16:03:09 [Zakim]

I see no one muted

16:03:32 [ShaneM]

ACTION:  Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] --done

16:03:52 [ShaneM]

--done

16:04:07 [ShaneM]

ACTION:  Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

16:04:08 [ShaneM]

--done

16:04:12 [manu]

http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa-vocab-20100111.html

16:04:24 [ShaneM]

ACTION:  Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

16:04:26 [ShaneM]

--continues

16:04:36 [ShaneM]

ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]

16:04:38 [ShaneM]

--continues

16:04:44 [ShaneM]

ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]on07! [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

16:04:46 [ShaneM]

--continues

16:04:52 [markbirbeck]

markbirbeck has joined #rdfa

16:05:12 [ShaneM]

TOPIC: Chartering process update

16:05:14 [markbirbeck]

zakim, code?

16:05:14 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

16:05:27 [ShaneM]

ivan: nothing new to report

16:05:54 [Zakim]

+??P34

16:06:00 [markbirbeck]

zakim, i am ?

16:06:00 [Zakim]

+markbirbeck; got it

16:06:24 [ShaneM]

ivan: deadline is coming up. Need to contact a few people before then so we ensure people who expressed interest have a change to sign up.

16:06:32 [ShaneM]

s/change/chance/

16:13:26 [ShaneM]

TOPIC: RDFa Working Group Authoring Tools

16:14:55 [Steven_]

zakim, mute me

16:14:55 [Zakim]

sorry, Steven_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

16:15:04 [Steven_]

zakim, I am Steven

16:15:04 [Zakim]

ok, Steven_, I now associate you with Steven

16:15:05 [ShaneM]

manu: some members have been kicking ideas around privately. looking at reSpec and CVS + something external for diffs

16:15:11 [Steven_]

zakim, mute me

16:15:11 [Zakim]

Steven should now be muted

16:16:28 [ShaneM]

reSpec worked reasonably well for doing the Vocabulary document

16:16:52 [ShaneM]

ivan: other tool sets seem to require installing lots of stuff - high barrier to entry

16:18:28 [ShaneM]

markbirbeck: original thought was to use Ant so it was possible to run things on different platforms... but that doesn't seem compatible with the model.

16:18:34 [Steven_]

ack me

16:19:13 [Steven_]

q+

16:19:37 [ShaneM]

q+ to ask if there is room to have it produce documents annotated with RDFa?

16:19:56 [ShaneM]

ivan: need to ensure that the references it produces are up to date

16:20:03 [manu]

ack Steven

16:20:44 [ShaneM]

Steven_: only fear is how we are going to produce diff-marked versions. We need some way to produce these.

16:20:46 [manu]

ack ShaneM

16:20:46 [Zakim]

ShaneM, you wanted to ask if there is room to have it produce documents annotated with RDFa?

16:21:41 [ShaneM]

ShaneM: are you authoring in HTML or wysiwyg

16:21:47 [ShaneM]

ivan: HTML(5).

16:22:14 [ShaneM]

ivan: any RDFa that is put into the code would just stay there.

16:23:07 [Steven_]

zakim, mute me

16:23:09 [Zakim]

Steven should now be muted

16:23:27 [ShaneM]

ShaneM: can we have it produce XHTML? Its a permitted format.

16:23:37 [ShaneM]

manu: seems like it would be a simple change.

16:24:25 [manu]

s/TOPIC/Topic/

16:25:28 [ShaneM]

ShaneM: CVS has the ability to run scripts - so we can have diffs generated automatically as part of the checkin

16:26:12 [ShaneM]

manu: we don't have a solution for PDF or for multi-page documents.

16:26:22 [Steven_]

zakim, who is muted?

16:26:22 [Zakim]

I see no one muted

16:26:28 [Steven_]

zakim, mute me

16:26:28 [Zakim]

Steven should now be muted

16:27:14 [ShaneM]

manu: a multi-page document is a document that is split into sections with a master table of contents

16:27:30 [ShaneM]

ivan: not convinced we need this because our specs are relatively small.

16:27:44 [ShaneM]

manu: having both versions is nice. Not necessarily a high priority.

16:28:40 [ShaneM]

ShaneM: W3C already uses html2ps so... if we can identify the conventions that make that work it should be fine.

16:28:58 [manu]

http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html

16:29:00 [ShaneM]

ACTION: ShaneM to identify the requirements for html2ps and see about getting reSpec to support them.

16:29:21 [ShaneM]

Topic: HTML RDFa heartbeat draft

16:30:06 [manu]

http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html#preserving-namespaces-via-coercion-to-infoset

16:30:16 [ShaneM]

manu: specified rules for maintaining namespaces in the generated DOM.

16:30:39 [ShaneM]

manu: also added informative sections describing how infoset based and dom 2 based processors work

16:30:48 [manu]

http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html#infoset-based-processors

16:31:16 [manu]

http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html#dom-level-2-based-processors

16:32:09 [ShaneM]

feedback so far is fairly positive. no one is attempting to block publication at this time.

16:34:08 [ShaneM]

ShaneM: not excited about codifying implementation algorithms

16:34:37 [ShaneM]

manu: testing people from user agent vendors seem excited about understanding the implementation methodology to limit the possibility of incompatibilities in the future.

16:34:45 [ShaneM]

markbirbeck: likes it.

16:35:40 [manu]

Topic: RDFa Vocabularies

16:36:18 [manu]

http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa-vocab-20100111.html

16:37:45 [ShaneM]

manu: Discussion about CORS

16:38:35 [ShaneM]

uncertain if CORS is actually implemented in major browsers.

16:40:42 [ShaneM]

ivan: if CORS is not available, this vocab proposal seems hard to support

16:41:26 [ShaneM]

markbirbeck: had a hack for Safari that would support doing cross site retrieval via an iframe - but that didn't work in other user agents.

16:42:41 [ShaneM]

markbirbeck: content negotiation should be part of the solution. there is no need for a rich new syntax. any existing syntax should be supportable. RDFa, HTML, JSON...

16:43:10 [ShaneM]

ivan: why doesnt cross domain security apply to JSON files?

16:44:13 [ShaneM]

markbirbeck: In the same way that you can get an image from any location into a page, you can refer to a script via an src attribute on another site. The code might not run, so you use something called JSONp. You return a function call, and the parameters are the data you want to get into the host application.

16:45:07 [ShaneM]

markbirbeck: would need a convention for emitting the right format (e.g. function call with parameters)

16:46:23 [ShaneM]

manu: concern about requiring a JSON parser then to handle vocabs.

16:46:25 [markbirbeck]

document.meta.addMappings( { "foaf" : "http://..." } );

16:47:50 [ShaneM]

markbirbeck: the base format doesn't preclude parsing by non-JS environments. just need to strip off the beginning bit and parse through the name value pairs

16:47:57 [ivan]

q+

16:48:18 [ShaneM]

markbirbeck: this doesn't impact authors. It effects vocabulary creators and parsers.

16:48:51 [manu]

ack ivan

16:49:14 [manu]

q+

16:49:48 [ShaneM]

ivan: no problem if what we say is that at a given URI we have a JSON file. There is support for JSON in other languages like Python already.

16:50:41 [ShaneM]

ivan: not as excited about content negotiation. Seems like this is an extra complication that we don't want to force our vocabulary authors to have to deal with.

16:51:49 [ShaneM]

manu: concern about how the information would get included in the document.

16:52:00 [manu]

<script src="http://example.org/myvocab.js" />

16:52:26 [markbirbeck]

@vocab="http://example.org/myvocab"

16:54:45 [manu]

var theVocab="HTMLDOCUMENT";

16:55:14 [manu]

var theVocab="HTML+RDFa DOCUMENT";

16:55:37 [ShaneM]

document.meta.parseRdfa("HTML+RDFa Document")

16:57:38 [markbirbeck]

http://example.org/myvocab.js?callback=document.meta.addMappings

16:59:07 [ShaneM]

ivan: so a python system would use the basic URI - a JS implementaiton would append the callback CGI parameter

16:59:15 [ShaneM]

s/implementaiton/implementation/

17:00:31 [ShaneM]

could we require the servers to serve up other formats?

17:00:50 [ShaneM]

s/could/manu: could/

17:01:50 [ShaneM]

markbirbeck: Jeni is working on standardizing the format of data that is being returned from servers (RDF <-> JSON) etc.

17:02:43 [ShaneM]

markbirbeck: it would be nice if this effort and the linked data effort on mappings converge.

17:03:14 [markbirbeck]

http://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/

17:03:26 [ShaneM]

manu: let's shift some of this discussion to the mailing list and get input from others

17:03:57 [ivan]

rrsagent, draft minutes

17:03:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-minutes.html ivan

17:03:58 [Zakim]

-markbirbeck

17:04:01 [Zakim]

-Steven

17:04:18 [Zakim]

-ShaneM

17:04:29 [Zakim]

-Ivan

17:04:44 [manu]

ShaneM: Here's are all the magic commands you'll ever need to know about scribing - http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm?content-type=text/html#Quick_Start_Guide

17:04:53 [Zakim]

-manu

17:04:54 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

17:04:56 [Zakim]

Attendees were manu, Ivan, ShaneM, Steven, markbirbeck

17:05:18 [manu]

Present+ Steven_Pemberton, Mark_Birbeck

17:05:35 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

17:05:35 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-minutes.html manu

17:21:15 [manu]

zakim, bye

17:21:15 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #rdfa

17:21:17 [manu]

rrsagent, bye

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-actions.rdf :

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

ACTION:  Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] --done [1]

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc#T16-03-32

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

ACTION:  Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action03] [2]

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc#T16-04-07

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

ACTION:  Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] [3]

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc#T16-04-24

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action05] [4]

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc#T16-04-36

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]on07! [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [5]

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc#T16-04-44

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ShaneM to identify the requirements for html2ps and see about getting reSpec to support them. [6]

17:21:17 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc#T16-29-00