15:11:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
15:11:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc
15:11:36 <manu> zakim, this will be rdfa
15:11:36 <Zakim> ok, manu; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 49 minutes
15:11:55 <manu> rrsagent, make logs public
15:11:58 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:11:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-minutes.html manu
15:12:13 <manu> Meeting: RDFa in XHTML Task Force
15:12:17 <manu> Chair: Manu Sporny
15:12:37 <manu> Present: Manu_Sporny, Ivan_Herman, Shane_McCarron
15:12:41 <manu> Regrets: Ben_Adida
15:13:10 <manu> Scribe: Shane_McCarron
15:15:23 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2010Jan/0031.html
15:15:40 <manu> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html
15:16:50 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:16:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-minutes.html manu
15:58:06 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
15:58:41 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:58:48 <Zakim> +??P0
15:58:51 <manu> zakim, I am ??P0
15:58:51 <Zakim> +manu; got it
15:58:56 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:58:56 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:58:57 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:59:05 <Steven_> Steven_ has joined #rdfa
15:59:49 <Zakim> +ShaneM
16:01:40 <ShaneM> Scribe: ShaneM
16:01:50 <ShaneM> TOPIC: Action Items
16:01:55 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html
16:02:05 <Steven_> zakim, dial steven-617
16:02:09 <Steven_> zakim, who is here?
16:02:12 <Zakim> ok, Steven_; the call is being made
16:02:20 <Zakim> +Steven
16:02:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu, Ivan, ShaneM, Steven (muted)
16:02:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see Steven_, ShaneM, RRSAgent, Zakim, manu, ivan
16:02:44 <Steven_> zakim, who is muted?
16:03:09 <Zakim> I see no one muted
16:03:32 <ShaneM> ACTION:  Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] --done
16:03:52 <ShaneM> --done
16:04:07 <ShaneM> ACTION:  Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
16:04:08 <ShaneM> --done
16:04:12 <manu> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa-vocab-20100111.html
16:04:24 <ShaneM> ACTION:  Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]
16:04:26 <ShaneM> --continues
16:04:36 <ShaneM> ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]
16:04:38 <ShaneM> --continues
16:04:44 <ShaneM> ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]on07! [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
16:04:46 <ShaneM> --continues
16:04:52 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
16:05:12 <ShaneM> TOPIC: Chartering process update
16:05:14 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
16:05:14 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
16:05:27 <ShaneM> ivan: nothing new to report
16:05:54 <Zakim> +??P34
16:06:00 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?
16:06:00 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
16:06:24 <ShaneM> ivan: deadline is coming up.  Need to contact a few people before then so we ensure people who expressed interest have a change to sign up.
16:06:32 <ShaneM> s/change/chance/
16:13:26 <ShaneM> TOPIC: RDFa Working Group Authoring Tools
16:14:55 <Steven_> zakim, mute me
16:14:55 <Zakim> sorry, Steven_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:15:04 <Steven_> zakim, I am Steven
16:15:04 <Zakim> ok, Steven_, I now associate you with Steven
16:15:05 <ShaneM> manu: some members have been kicking ideas around privately.  looking at reSpec and CVS + something external for diffs
16:15:11 <Steven_> zakim, mute me
16:15:11 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted
16:16:28 <ShaneM> reSpec worked reasonably well for doing the Vocabulary document
16:16:52 <ShaneM> ivan: other tool sets seem to require installing lots of stuff - high barrier to entry
16:18:28 <ShaneM> markbirbeck: original thought was to use Ant so it was possible to run things on different platforms...  but that doesn't seem compatible with the model.
16:18:34 <Steven_> ack me
16:19:13 <Steven_> q+
16:19:37 <ShaneM> q+ to ask if there is room to have it produce documents annotated with RDFa?
16:19:56 <ShaneM> ivan: need to ensure that the references it produces are up to date
16:20:03 <manu> ack Steven
16:20:44 <ShaneM> Steven_: only fear is how we are going to produce diff-marked versions.  We need some way to produce these.
16:20:46 <manu> ack ShaneM
16:20:46 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask if there is room to have it produce documents annotated with RDFa?
16:21:41 <ShaneM> ShaneM: are you authoring in HTML or wysiwyg
16:21:47 <ShaneM> ivan: HTML(5). 
16:22:14 <ShaneM> ivan: any RDFa that is put into the code would just stay there.  
16:23:07 <Steven_> zakim, mute me
16:23:09 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted
16:23:27 <ShaneM> ShaneM: can we have it produce XHTML?  Its a permitted format.
16:23:37 <ShaneM> manu: seems like it would be a simple change.
16:24:25 <manu> s/TOPIC/Topic/
16:25:28 <ShaneM> ShaneM: CVS has the ability to run scripts - so we can have diffs generated automatically as part of the checkin
16:26:12 <ShaneM> manu: we don't have a solution for PDF or for multi-page documents.  
16:26:22 <Steven_> zakim, who is muted?
16:26:22 <Zakim> I see no one muted
16:26:28 <Steven_> zakim, mute me
16:26:28 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted
16:27:14 <ShaneM> manu: a multi-page document is a document that is split into sections with a master table of contents
16:27:30 <ShaneM> ivan: not convinced we need this because our specs are relatively small.
16:27:44 <ShaneM> manu: having both versions is nice.  Not necessarily a high priority.
16:28:40 <ShaneM> ShaneM: W3C already uses html2ps so... if we can identify the conventions that make that work it should be fine.
16:28:58 <manu> http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html
16:29:00 <ShaneM> ACTION: ShaneM to identify the requirements for html2ps and see about getting reSpec to support them.
16:29:21 <ShaneM> Topic: HTML RDFa heartbeat draft
16:30:06 <manu> http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html#preserving-namespaces-via-coercion-to-infoset
16:30:16 <ShaneM> manu: specified rules for maintaining namespaces in the generated DOM.
16:30:39 <ShaneM> manu: also added informative sections describing how infoset based and dom 2 based processors work
16:30:48 <manu> http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html#infoset-based-processors
16:31:16 <manu> http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html#dom-level-2-based-processors
16:32:09 <ShaneM> feedback so far is fairly positive.  no one is attempting to block publication at this time.
16:34:08 <ShaneM> ShaneM: not excited about codifying implementation algorithms 
16:34:37 <ShaneM> manu: testing people from user agent vendors seem excited about understanding the implementation methodology to limit the possibility of incompatibilities in the future.
16:34:45 <ShaneM> markbirbeck: likes it.
16:35:40 <manu> Topic: RDFa Vocabularies
16:36:18 <manu> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa-vocab-20100111.html
16:37:45 <ShaneM> manu: Discussion about CORS
16:38:35 <ShaneM> uncertain if CORS is actually implemented in major browsers.
16:40:42 <ShaneM> ivan: if CORS is not available, this vocab proposal seems hard to support
16:41:26 <ShaneM> markbirbeck: had a hack for Safari that would support doing cross site retrieval via an iframe - but that didn't work in other user agents.
16:42:41 <ShaneM> markbirbeck: content negotiation should be part of the solution.  there is no need for a rich new syntax.  any existing syntax should be supportable.  RDFa, HTML, JSON...
16:43:10 <ShaneM> ivan: why doesnt cross domain security apply to JSON files?  
16:44:13 <ShaneM> markbirbeck: In the same way that you can get an image from any location into a page, you can refer to a script via an src attribute on another site.  The code might not run, so you use something called JSONp.  You return a function call, and the parameters are the data you want to get into the host application.
16:45:07 <ShaneM> markbirbeck: would need a convention for emitting the right format (e.g. function call with parameters)
16:46:23 <ShaneM> manu: concern about requiring a JSON parser then to handle vocabs.  
16:46:25 <markbirbeck> document.meta.addMappings( { "foaf" : "http://..." } );
16:47:50 <ShaneM> markbirbeck: the base format doesn't preclude parsing by non-JS environments.  just need to strip off the beginning bit and parse through the name value pairs
16:47:57 <ivan> q+
16:48:18 <ShaneM> markbirbeck: this doesn't impact authors.  It effects vocabulary creators and parsers.  
16:48:51 <manu> ack ivan
16:49:14 <manu> q+
16:49:48 <ShaneM> ivan: no problem if what we say is that at a given URI we have a JSON file.  There is support for JSON in other languages like Python already.
16:50:41 <ShaneM> ivan: not as excited about content negotiation. Seems like this is an extra complication that we don't want to force our vocabulary authors to have to deal with.
16:51:49 <ShaneM> manu: concern about how the information would get included in the document.
16:52:00 <manu> <script src="http://example.org/myvocab.js" />
16:52:26 <markbirbeck> @vocab="http://example.org/myvocab"
16:54:45 <manu> var theVocab="HTMLDOCUMENT";
16:55:14 <manu> var theVocab="HTML+RDFa DOCUMENT";
16:55:37 <ShaneM> document.meta.parseRdfa("HTML+RDFa Document")
16:57:38 <markbirbeck> http://example.org/myvocab.js?callback=document.meta.addMappings
16:59:07 <ShaneM> ivan: so a python system would use the basic URI - a JS implementaiton would append the callback CGI parameter
16:59:15 <ShaneM> s/implementaiton/implementation/
17:00:31 <ShaneM> could we require the servers to serve up other formats?
17:00:50 <ShaneM> s/could/manu: could/
17:01:50 <ShaneM> markbirbeck: Jeni is working on standardizing the format of data that is being returned from servers (RDF <-> JSON) etc.
17:02:43 <ShaneM> markbirbeck: it would be nice if this effort and the linked data effort on mappings converge.
17:03:14 <markbirbeck> http://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/
17:03:26 <ShaneM> manu: let's shift some of this discussion to the mailing list and get input from others
17:03:57 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:03:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-minutes.html ivan
17:03:58 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
17:04:01 <Zakim> -Steven
17:04:18 <Zakim> -ShaneM
17:04:29 <Zakim> -Ivan
17:04:44 <manu> ShaneM: Here's are all the magic commands you'll ever need to know about scribing - http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm?content-type=text/html#Quick_Start_Guide
17:04:53 <Zakim> -manu
17:04:54 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
17:04:56 <Zakim> Attendees were manu, Ivan, ShaneM, Steven, markbirbeck
17:05:18 <manu> Present+ Steven_Pemberton, Mark_Birbeck
17:05:35 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:05:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-minutes.html manu
17:21:15 <manu> zakim, bye
17:21:15 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdfa
17:21:17 <manu> rrsagent, bye
17:21:17 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-actions.rdf :
17:21:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION:  Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] --done [1]
17:21:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc#T16-03-32
17:21:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION:  Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action03] [2]
17:21:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc#T16-04-07
17:21:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION:  Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] [3]
17:21:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc#T16-04-24
17:21:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action05] [4]
17:21:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc#T16-04-36
17:21:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]on07! [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [5]
17:21:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc#T16-04-44
17:21:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ShaneM to identify the requirements for html2ps and see about getting reSpec to support them. [6]
17:21:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc#T16-29-00