<trackbot> Date: 08 December 2009

<AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 08 December 2009

<kasei> that's me. Zakim already recognized me, though :\

<pgearon> sound issues here. Dialing back in

<kasei> hrmmm

<AndyS> LeeF, you sound muffled.

<scribe> Scribenick: leef

<kasei> Axel, aaaa was me. I'm 518.

<kasei> Zakim won't allow me to take my hand down, though.

<tkoivula> Tommi Koivula from Profium

<kasei> Axel?

<kasei> am I muted?

Introductions

<ivan> welcome to souri and mperry!

Souri: I was involved in DAWG and some of the early SPARQL WG meetings and have now joined officially. We've followed the WG's progress, hoping to contribute

mperry: Also from Oracle, joined about a year ago and work on SPARQL query answering in Oracle

AxelPolleres: Welcome!

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-11-24

admin

<AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-11-24

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-12-01

<AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-12-01

<bglimm> I said I could not make it

<bglimm> but I am not in the regrets list

<mperry> i think ??P26 is me

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to add birte to regrets in last time minutes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-sparql-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-147 - Add birte to regrets in last time minutes [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-12-15].

Next meeting is one week from now (Dec-15)

AxelPolleres: Do we want to have a meeting on the 22nd?

<ivan> regrets for next week

AxelPolleres: we want to publish next round of documents in mid-January
... might be good to have teleconference on 22nd as we're bringing documents into shape for internal review

<ivan> I am on vacations

AxelPolleres: Who would NOT be able to join on the 22nd?

<bglimm> I am not sure whether I can make it

<AlexPassant> Ill be away

<AndyS> I can make a telecon on 22nd

<pgearon> I need to find out about school timetable

I can make it

<chimezie> i will be on vaccation

AxelPolleres: Let's try to have one with whoever is around

<AndyS> sicne we're planning ... 29th? yes/no?

AxelPolleres: Suggest no teleconference on Dec 29
... resume on Jan 5

<bglimm> 5th is ok

<ivan> agreed

AxelPolleres: ok?

<pgearon> sure

<AndyS> Fine by me.

<Souri> +1

<chimezie> ok

<AlexPassant> +1

<mperry> yes

everyone: ok

subtopic: F2F3

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F3

AxelPolleres: Please fill in your availability for next face-to-face in March
... plan is to have mid-March meeting with two sites (US and UK/Ireland)
... discussion among chairs about fixing the dates

<AndyS> Please do fix the date soon.

AxelPolleres: two slots under discussion
... 1) 15 & 16
... 2) 25 & 26
... any preferences?

<pgearon> I can't make it on the 16th

<AndyS> Can make either - fixing the date is what is important for me.

AxelPolleres: Can anyone not make the 25th and 26th?

(silence)

<Souri> 25th and 26th is fine with Matt and me

sandro: let's give 48 hours for people to comment on 25th and 26th for face to face

<AndyS> Please flip the coin on Oxford and Galway as well (IIRC Steve iffy for Galway)

AxelPolleres: F2F3 will probably be March 25 & 26, 2010, to be fixed in a couple of days

summary: F2F3 will probably be March 25 & 26, 2010, to be fixed in a couple of days

<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments

comments

<kasei> I added a draft response to ldodds-sd-1 last night.

LeeF: comments from Holger and Jeremy are still open

<AndyS> AH-1 was sent to me directly so no reply needed.

AxelPolleres: Please take a look at early comments and address if possible/relevant

AndyS: No expectation of reply to AH-1

liaisons

Souri: RDB2RDF still doing presentations
... nothing special to report

Publications

AxelPolleres: How do we get to next round of publications?
... 3 weeks in ago we talked about the heartbeat requirement (3 month publishing cycle), which puts us in mid-January
... we will focus next week on getting documents stabilized
... Would like document editors to summarize changes since FPWD in a change log

AndyS: We've integrated all of the new material with the old material
... Current lock is on formatting issues

<kasei> LeeF, sorry about that. that hand raising turned out to be more trouble than it was worth :)

<AxelPolleres> high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD

LeeF: what I had in mind was a high-level summary of major changes since FPWD

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: AndyS to provide a high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD in Query 1.1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-sparql-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - AndyS

<scribe> ACTION: Andy to provide a high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD in Query 1.1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-sparql-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-148 - Provide a high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD in Query 1.1 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2009-12-15].

<scribe> ACTION: Paul to provide a high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD in Update [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-sparql-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-149 - Provide a high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD in Update [on Paul Gearon - due 2009-12-15].

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: PaulG to provide a high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD in Update 1.1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-sparql-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - PaulG

AxelPolleres: high level change logs by next Tuesday
... General plan is to have documents ready by Christmas, pick reviewers to review by early January, then publish

<chimezie> i hear interference

<dcharbon2> sorry, in a noisy place

LeeF: Protocol is still in transition to David Charboneau as new editor, no change so far from FPWD

<kasei> can you hear me?

<AlexPassant> no kasei

<scribe> ACTION: David and Lee to synchronize on what can be done in protocol document before next WD publication [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-sparql-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - David

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dcharbon2, dnewman2)

<scribe> ACTION: Greg to provide a high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD in Service Description [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-sparql-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-150 - Provide a high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD in Service Description [on Gregory Williams - due 2009-12-15].

AndyS: On service description - we talked about joint discussions with VoiD - are we taking that forward?

kasei: Nothing yet. Intention is to make sure we're aligned with VoiD soon, now that dataset description stuff is nailed down

AndyS: Should we have a joint teleconference with them?

kasei: We can try to. Would you be interested in participating? My approach to date has been pretty informal

<AlexPassant> Zakimm, ??P3 is me

<AndyS> If it's just me then not much point.

AndyS: Would be good to discuss who's going to do what in terms of actually describing the graphs

<AxelPolleres> ACTION: kasei to contact void and start a discussion on issues around SD [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-sparql-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-151 - Contact void and start a discussion on issues around SD [on Gregory Williams - due 2009-12-15].

AxelPolleres: last document is RDF update

<scribe> ACTION: Chimezie to provide a high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD in RDF Update [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-sparql-minutes.html#action09]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-152 - Provide a high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD in RDF Update [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2009-12-15].

<scribe> ACTION: Birte to provide a high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD in entailment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-sparql-minutes.html#action10]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-153 - Provide a high-level changelog summarising what has happened since FPWD in entailment [on Birte Glimm - due 2009-12-15].

<AndyS> Urgent: agg custom syntax

<AndyS> ... would be nice to publish a grammar out (stretch objective)

<bglimm> I can do that again

<Souri> Matt and I can do it

<kasei> when would these reviews be due in?

Reviews would be due beginning of January, ideally

<Souri> We'll try :-)

<AxelPolleres> Query reviewers: Birte, Matt Souri, Axel

<AndyS> Yes

<AndyS> I'll review for update (lang? protocol?)

<Zakim> LeeF, you wanted to ask if we can get reviewers

<AxelPolleres> Update reviewers: AndyS, Axel,

<kasei> lots of echo

<AndyS> which update?

<LeeF__> suggest external reviewers should be in addition to internal reviewers

<bglimm> Ok, then I'll ask for some additional informal reviews

<Zakim> bglimm, you wanted to ask who can be reviewer

Don't think it's worth getting protocol reviewers right now

<AlexPassant> +1 for SD review

<dcharbon2> I can

<AxelPolleres> SD reviwers: david, Alex, Axel

alex & david to review service description

<AndyS> Will review http-review

I'll review that rdf update on Christmas

<AndyS> Will review http-update

<kasei> I can do http-update

<AxelPolleres> rdf-update: andyS, LeeF, Axel

<ivan> +1

<ivan> +1 for review

<AxelPolleres> entailment regimes review: ivan, Axel

<AndyS> What about property paths?

What's the status of property paths?

<ivan> +1 to Andy, a fpwd would be good

<ivan> +1 to review

<Souri> +1

AndyS: publish property paths as its own document since it's still time permitting

property path reviewers: LeeF, Ivan, Souri

<mperry> +1 Property Path review

scope of alias variables

AxelPolleres: Lee raised the issue, Andy made a strawman proposal

<AndyS> Matt, Souri - PP is http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/property-paths/Overview.xml

<Souri> Thanks Andy

AndyS: what is the scope of variables introduced in select expressions - the ones after "AS"

<AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009OctDec/0585.html

AndyS: what is described is a design in which you can't introduce a variable that is already used before
... the variable can be used in an expression that's further to the right in the select expressions list
... also in scope for the HAVING clause
... not in scope for the query pattern

<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/select-expr-defs-1-1.html

<kasei> echo again...

<AxelPolleres> echo, lee pleaserepeat

LeeF: I supported the alternative design that didn't allow variables to be reused in expressoins at the F2F, but I'm just as happy with Andy's proposal

that's right

AndyS: to clarify, the other design was one in which alias variables can't be used in any expressions in the select expression

?

LeeF: Yes.

AndyS: this also covers using variables in the HAVING clause
... not the group by, but yes for having

<Souri> examples of valid and invalid GROUP BY HAVING?

<AxelPolleres> ISSUE-41, ISSUE-12

<AndyS> souri, there are some on the list as a starting point - do ask for more if you want

AndyS: think we need Steve to see if this couples nicely with aggregates

Souri: examples?

<AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/

Souri: there's no dependency about the variables used in the pattern and in the alias? if I use ?x in the pattern, can I say "?y+1 AS ?x" ?

AndyS: that's defined as a syntax error through a static check

<AndyS> See http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/select-expr-defs-1-1.html

<AxelPolleres> [...] var not in dom(μ) [...]

<sandro> Call is out of time. Bye all.

<AxelPolleres> blocking issues?

AxelPolleres: Ask editors to identify blocking issues that need the most urgent attention

<AxelPolleres> will ping all editors separately again right after the TC on issues...

<bglimm> ok

AxelPolleres: Adjourned.

<bglimm> bye

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Possibly Present: AlexPassant AndyS Axel AxelPolleres Chimezie_Ogbuji IPcaller Ivan KjetilK LeeF LeeF__ LukeWM Orri P13 P26 P3 P35 P4 P7 PROPOSED Sandro Scribenick Souri Urgent aaaa aadd bglimm chimezie dcharbon2 everyone iv_an_ru joined karl kasei mperry ottela pgearon rdf-update sparql subtopic summary tkoivula trackbot
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Regrets: SteveH LukeWM Kjetilk

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Found Date: 08 Dec 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-sparql-minutes.html
People with action items: andy andys axel birte chimezie david greg kasei lee paul paulg