AAPI Teleconference

17 Nov 2009

See also: IRC log


Andi_Snow-Weaver, Cynthia_Shelly, Gregory_Rosmaita, David_Bolter, Tim_Boland



translation of aapi passcode: 2274

GJR needs to leave after an hour

<Andi> scribe: Andi

<oedipus> pointer, please?

<davidb> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_role

<oedipus> thanks, davidb

<davidb> np

links back to ARIA spec are not working

ARIA spec has been split into sections

check with Michael - do these need to be tagged differently now?


DB: xml-roles > expose as object attribute in IA2 and ATK

CS: and AriaRole UIA property

DB: note: xml-role="note"
... probably the same for a lot of these
... MSAA uses xml-roles

CS: treated like any generic element - editable text, readonly
... not necessarily the best way to map - not sure I want to codify that

<davidb> In IA2 we expose an object attribute xml-roles with the roles specified via "role=" same with ATK

navigation and note - use string mapping

navigation and note - use string mapping

<oedipus> dbolter, are the xml-roles the same as found in: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab ??

CS: not sure we want to say every element should be mapped - if has ARIA probably should

<oedipus> andi, do you want me to scribe?

<oedipus> "Where possible, WAI-ARIA semantics MUST be exposed through the standard mechanisms of the desktop accessibility API. For example, for WAI-ARIA widgets, compare how the widget is exposed in a similar desktop widget. In general most WAI-ARIA widget capabilities are exposed through the role, value, Boolean states and relations of the accessibility API."

CS: note and navigation are editable text with state of readonly for MSAA


<oedipus> still need an additional predefined role - "form" as opposed to just "search" - not all forms are search forms

CS: MSAA - text

DB: object attribute for IA2 and ATK

CS: UIA - AriaProperty role

DB: number of things we special case with landmarks

CS: are landmarks all treated the same by FF?

DB: some we consider strong and some weak
... depends on what HTML element it's on
... if put landmark role on table element, FF uses as hint to indicate it's not a layout table
... role=application is strong landmark
... navigation landmark on hyperlink, still need to expose state linked, etc.


Scroll bar

<cyns> Scroll bar


<oedipus> "form" versus "search" - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2009AprJun/0035.html

<cyns> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms788733.aspx



CS: no timer role in MSAA
... UIA: use AriaRole property

<davidb> DB: (via IRC) just to be clear above, the xml-roles is not exposed via MSAA, but is in the object attributes of IA2 and ATK. we always expose the entire role string

DB: expose some aria-live information

<oedipus> only item in "timer" row: "MacOS: AXGroup, AXRoleDescription: "timer""

DB: don't map to role, default value of aria-live=off
... same for log, status, tablist - polite default



CS: think there are no reverse relations for UIA
... if have element with aria-describedby, go to the element referenced by aria-describedby and get the text

<oedipus> MSAA: Expose via accDescription

CS: will send to IE team to see if do any reverse relations

<inserted> scribenick: oedipus

ASW: have section on strong versus weak semantics at beginning

<Andi> move example on labelleby after the table to the strong vs weak semantics section



CS: changed format - now clearer

ASW: agree

Group Position

CS: done some editing - still doesn't make complete sense to me
... better than previous text, but still needs work
... couldn't tell if applied only to IA2 and ATK or everywhere
... looks like should apply everywhere

ASW: agree - next section uses API relations (apiChildOf)

CS: paragraph about IA2 and ATK implementation stuff - reads as if should be "everything" now

Actions Table

CS: haven't worked on it this week
... sent some feedback about Actions table to list
... will spend more time on it today

Section 5.3

CS: new section i created based on comments when reviewed FAQ
... FAQ material re-written and put in this section

Section 6

CS: not sure how to approach - not sure where to put this content -- worried about error detection/correction -- too weak?
... don't know what a layout API is

GJR: layout API = canvas or SVG?

CS: move up to mapping section with asterisk?
... need glossary definition for layout API

ASW: better in author error section

DB: are these AaronL's words?

CS: yes

ASW: author error

CS: makes sense
... need definition for layout API - use of rendered text instead of DOM???

DB: what i read is that we ignore it; if UAs do that implications for DOM-based AT; UA has best knowledge of what is in DOM -- questoin of exposure to AT

ASW: aria-hidden used in 4.1 "General Rules"
... if has global states and properties or aria state should be in tree

CS: have marked as error -- need help to define

ASW: rather not use term "layout API"
... add bullet under 5.3 author errors stating: "Determining if aria-hidden reflects..."


CS: could use author text instead of DOM -- may not need to state that

DB: extract from old guide re: ARIA

<davidb> DB: This used to be in the original guide: "This is not used in mapping to platform accessibility APIs. Instead, use information from the layout system to determine if the element is hidden or not. Advisory: it is incorrect use of ARIA if an element with aria-hidden="true" is visible. The aria-hidden property is exposed only so that DOM-based assistive technologies can be informed of visibility changes. However, the layout will be..."

CS: is that in version of guide that went out February 2009?

DB: was on mozilla web site

CS: covered all my questions
... will send request for feedback to IE team and finish reading through today

DB: by thursday midday EST hope to have something - hopefully before then
... email you, Andi?

ASW: yes

<davidb> oedipus: thanks for scribing!

Summary of Action Items

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Found Scribe: Andi
Inferring ScribeNick: Andi
Found ScribeNick: oedipus
ScribeNicks: oedipus, Andi
Default Present: Andi_Snow-Weaver, Cynthia_Shelly, Gregory_Rosmaita, David_Bolter, Tim_Boland
Present: Andi_Snow-Weaver Cynthia_Shelly Gregory_Rosmaita David_Bolter Tim_Boland
Regrets: Simon_Pieters
Got date from IRC log name: 17 Nov 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/17-aapi-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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