See also: IRC log
translation of aapi passcode: 2274
GJR needs to leave after an hour
<Andi> scribe: Andi
<oedipus> pointer, please?
<oedipus> thanks, davidb
links back to ARIA spec are not working
ARIA spec has been split into sections
check with Michael - do these need to be tagged differently now?
DB: xml-roles > expose as object attribute in IA2 and ATK
CS: and AriaRole UIA property
DB: note: xml-role="note"
... probably the same for a lot of these
... MSAA uses xml-roles
CS: treated like any generic
element - editable text, readonly
... not necessarily the best way to map - not sure I want to codify that
<davidb> In IA2 we expose an object attribute xml-roles with the roles specified via "role=" same with ATK
navigation and note - use string mapping
<oedipus> dbolter, are the xml-roles the same as found in: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab ??
CS: not sure we want to say every element should be mapped - if has ARIA probably should
<oedipus> andi, do you want me to scribe?
<oedipus> "Where possible, WAI-ARIA semantics MUST be exposed through the standard mechanisms of the desktop accessibility API. For example, for WAI-ARIA widgets, compare how the widget is exposed in a similar desktop widget. In general most WAI-ARIA widget capabilities are exposed through the role, value, Boolean states and relations of the accessibility API."
CS: note and navigation are editable text with state of readonly for MSAA
<oedipus> still need an additional predefined role - "form" as opposed to just "search" - not all forms are search forms
CS: MSAA - text
DB: object attribute for IA2 and ATK
CS: UIA - AriaProperty role
DB: number of things we special case with landmarks
CS: are landmarks all treated the same by FF?
DB: some we consider strong and
... depends on what HTML element it's on
... if put landmark role on table element, FF uses as hint to indicate it's not a layout table
... role=application is strong landmark
... navigation landmark on hyperlink, still need to expose state linked, etc.
CS: MSAA for scrollbar - ROLE_SYSTEM_SCROLLBAR
<cyns> Scroll bar
<davidb> for ATK: ATK_ROLE_SCROLL_BAR
<oedipus> "form" versus "search" - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2009AprJun/0035.html
CS: no timer role in MSAA
... UIA: use AriaRole property
<davidb> DB: (via IRC) just to be clear above, the xml-roles is not exposed via MSAA, but is in the object attributes of IA2 and ATK. we always expose the entire role string
DB: expose some aria-live information
<oedipus> only item in "timer" row: "MacOS: AXGroup, AXRoleDescription: "timer""
DB: don't map to role, default
value of aria-live=off
... same for log, status, tablist - polite default
CS: think there are no reverse
relations for UIA
... if have element with aria-describedby, go to the element referenced by aria-describedby and get the text
<oedipus> MSAA: Expose via accDescription
CS: will send to IE team to see if do any reverse relations
<inserted> scribenick: oedipus
ASW: have section on strong versus weak semantics at beginning
<Andi> move example on labelleby after the table to the strong vs weak semantics section
CS: changed format - now clearer
CS: done some editing - still
doesn't make complete sense to me
... better than previous text, but still needs work
... couldn't tell if applied only to IA2 and ATK or everywhere
... looks like should apply everywhere
ASW: agree - next section uses API relations (apiChildOf)
CS: paragraph about IA2 and ATK implementation stuff - reads as if should be "everything" now
CS: haven't worked on it this
... sent some feedback about Actions table to list
... will spend more time on it today
CS: new section i created based
on comments when reviewed FAQ
... FAQ material re-written and put in this section
CS: not sure how to approach -
not sure where to put this content -- worried about error
detection/correction -- too weak?
... don't know what a layout API is
GJR: layout API = canvas or SVG?
CS: move up to mapping section
... need glossary definition for layout API
ASW: better in author error section
DB: are these AaronL's words?
ASW: author error
CS: makes sense
... need definition for layout API - use of rendered text instead of DOM???
DB: what i read is that we ignore it; if UAs do that implications for DOM-based AT; UA has best knowledge of what is in DOM -- questoin of exposure to AT
ASW: aria-hidden used in 4.1
... if has global states and properties or aria state should be in tree
CS: have marked as error -- need help to define
ASW: rather not use term "layout
... add bullet under 5.3 author errors stating: "Determining if aria-hidden reflects..."
CS: could use author text instead of DOM -- may not need to state that
DB: extract from old guide re: ARIA
<davidb> DB: This used to be in the original guide: "This is not used in mapping to platform accessibility APIs. Instead, use information from the layout system to determine if the element is hidden or not. Advisory: it is incorrect use of ARIA if an element with aria-hidden="true" is visible. The aria-hidden property is exposed only so that DOM-based assistive technologies can be informed of visibility changes. However, the layout will be..."
CS: is that in version of guide that went out February 2009?
DB: was on mozilla web site
CS: covered all my
... will send request for feedback to IE team and finish reading through today
DB: by thursday midday EST hope
to have something - hopefully before then
... email you, Andi?
<davidb> oedipus: thanks for scribing!
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/UA/UIA/ Succeeded: i/Relations/topic: Relations Succeeded: i/Timer/topic: Timer Succeeded: i/Scroll bar/topic: Scroll bar Succeeded: i/ASW: have section on strong/scribenick: oedipus Succeeded: i/navigation and note - use string mapping/topic: navigation and note - use string mapping Succeeded: i/xml-roles >/topic: Roles Found Scribe: Andi Inferring ScribeNick: Andi Found ScribeNick: oedipus ScribeNicks: oedipus, Andi Default Present: Andi_Snow-Weaver, Cynthia_Shelly, Gregory_Rosmaita, David_Bolter, Tim_Boland Present: Andi_Snow-Weaver Cynthia_Shelly Gregory_Rosmaita David_Bolter Tim_Boland Regrets: Simon_Pieters Got date from IRC log name: 17 Nov 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/17-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]