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<jeanne> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 19 October 2009
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009OctDec/0010.html
<jeanne> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009OctDec/0010.html
<jeanne> RESOLUTION: Accept the proposal from the survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35520/20091008/
<jeanne> RESOLUTION: Accept the proposal from the survey question 2 from October 12 survey
JS: Shawn does a lot of
travelling and communicating for W3C
... She gets lots of push-back on the name UUnderstanding
WCAG"
... Shawn has proposed "Implementing ATAG 2.0"
... Makes it seem forward looking and action-oriented
AM: Great idea
SN: Sounds reasonable -positions it well
JR: On the call there was no objection
<scribe> ACTION: JR to To check on "Implementing ATAG 2.0" with Jutta, Greg, Tim, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/19-au-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-191 - Check on "Implementing ATAG 2.0" with Jutta, Greg, Tim, etc. [on Jan Richards - due 2009-10-26].
<scribe> ACTION: JS to To check on "Implementing ATAG 2.0" with Judy [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/19-au-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-192 - Check on "Implementing ATAG 2.0" with Judy [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-10-26].
JT: OK with "Implementing ATAG 2.0"
<jeanne> JS: Do we want to include Sueann's email with Jan's edits?
<jeanne> JR: We still have a number of comments from Tim that we haven't reviewed. But these are mostly editorial comments.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009OctDec/0012.html
<jeanne> JS: I would like to get this working draft be as close as possible to Last Call. Ideally, we should be able to publish Last Call right after the comment period closes, depending on how many comments we get.
Original: A.3.1.1 Keyboard: All functionality of the authoring tool is operable through a keyboard interface without requiring specific timings for individual keystrokes, except where the underlying function requires input that depends on the path of the author's movement and not just the endpoints. (Level A)
<jeanne> s/: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009OctDec/0012.html/:
Propose: "A.3.1.1 Keyboard: All functionality of the authoring tool is operable
through a keyboard interface and does not require specific timings for
individual keystrokes. An exception to keyboard operability is allowed
where the underlying function requires input that depends on the path of
the author's movement and not just the endpoints. (Level A)"
JR: SN was original commenter - does it make sense?
SN: Would this preclude...you can use a keyboard to move focus...across a drwaing area.
WCAG's explanation: "The phrase "except where the underlying function requires input that
depends on the path of the user's movement and not just the endpoints"
is included to separate those things that cannot reasonably be
controlled from a keyboard. Most actions carried out by a pointing
device can also be done from the keyboard (for example, clicking,
selecting, moving, sizing). However, there is a small class of input
that is done with a pointing device that cannot be done from the
keyboard in any known fashion without requiring an inordinate number of
keystrokes. Free hand drawing, watercolor painting, and flying a
helicopter through an obstacle course are all examples of functions that
require path dependent input. Drawing straight lines, regular geometric
shapes, re-sizing windows and dragging objects to a location (when the
path to that location is not relevant) do not require path dependent
input. "
ATAG 2.0: Intent of Success Criterion A.3.1.1:
The intent of this success criterion is to ensure that, wherever possible, authoring tools can be operated through a keyboard or keyboard interface (so that an alternate keyboard can be used). Examples of "specific timings for individual keystrokes" include situations where authors would be required to repeat or execute multiple keystrokes within a short period of time or where a key must be...
scribe: held down for an extended period before the keystroke is registered. The phrase "except where the underlying function requires input that depends on the path of the author's movement and not just the endpoints" is included to exclude those tasks that cannot reasonably be controlled from a keyboard (e.g., free hand drawing, watercolor painting).
Drawing straight lines, regular geometric shapes, re-sizing windows and dragging objects to a location (when the path to that location is not relevant) do not require path dependent input.
Note 2: This does not forbid and should not discourage providing mouse input or other input methods in addition to keyboard operation.
<jeanne> AM: I'm concerned that people who are doing ajax apps will take that as an excuse not to make their application keyboard accessible.
his does not prohibit or discourage providing mouse input or
> other input methods in addition to keyboard operation.
<jeanne> JT: Why do we have to make any exception? If you can't use a mouse, you aren't going to be able to do the things.
<jeanne> JR: Looking at the example of a drawing program like Photoshop, particularly where there are devices that measure the pressure and speed of hte movement.
<jeanne> ... like the watercolor brush on a canvas.
<jeanne> JT: I'm not clear why we need an exception-- the keyboard control could be at a pixel level, but that is better than nothing.
<jeanne> JR: But this is a single A requirement, and it would exclude any pixel drawing program will be prevented from ATAG lvl A, even if they matched everything else.
"A.3.1.1 Keyboard: All functionality of the authoring tool is operable
through a keyboard interface and does not require specific timings for
individual keystrokes. An exception to keyboard operability is allowed
where the underlying function requires input that depends on the path of
the author's movement and not just the endpoints. (Level A)"
<jeanne> TB: Could we make the exception AAA? We could keep the exception in the SC at lvl A, and we could have an SC with no exception at AAA.
<jeanne> JT: Could we except gestures?
Drawing straight lines, regular geometric shapes, re-sizing windows and dragging objects to a location (when the path to that location is not relevant) do not require path dependent input.
<jeanne> JR: These exceptions are all drawing or painting programs.
<jeanne> TB: We can put it in and see what people say about it.
<jeanne> JT: Having an A and a AAA would be a good compromise.
<jeanne> JR: AA or AAA?
<jeanne> Group consensus, AAA
Resolution: (1) We use JR's
rewording responding SN (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009OctDec/0012.html)
; (2) add the line "Drawing straight lines, regular geometric
shapes, re-sizing windows and dragging objects to a location
(when the path to that location is not relevant) do not require
path dependent input" to the intent; (3) we are going to add
A.3.1.X Keyboard...
... (Enhanced) as AAA without the exception
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009OctDec/0012.html/: No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: Jan Inferring Scribes: Jan Default Present: Jeanne, Jan, +0776416aaaa, AnnM, +1.561.582.aabb, SuannN, Jutta, Tim_Boland Present: Jeanne Jan +0776416aaaa AnnM +1.561.582.aabb SuannN Jutta Tim_Boland Regrets: Greg_Pisocky Tim_Boland_(joining_late) Jutta_Treviranus_(joining_late) Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009OctDec/0010.html Found Date: 19 Oct 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/19-au-minutes.html People with action items: jr js[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]