W3C

RDF in XHTML Task Force

20 Aug 2009

Agenda

See also: IRC log
Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/08/13-rdfa-minutes

Attendees

Present
Manu Sporny, Ben Adida, Steven Pemberton, Mark Birbeck
Regrets
Shane McCarron, Michael Hausenblas, Ralph Swick
Chair
Ben Adida
Scribe
Manu Sporny

Contents




Ben: Kept agenda small because we want to discuss where we're headed.
... Want to make sure everybody is happy on what we're focusing on.
... So, topics you want to discuss today?

Steven: Got a call about the new IG charter on Monday - need to know details about the charter.

Ben: Yes, we need to decide that soon.

Mark: Yes, IG charter is important - we need a WG.
... @profile discussion is important - Microformats-like markup.

Steven: What about HTML WG publishing Microdata spec?

Manu: HTML5+RDFa discussion and WG charter is very important.

Ben: Let's talk about the RDFa WG then,
... followed by HTML5+RDFa xmlns: issue (10 minutes)
... rest of the discussion on @profile

Manu: +1

Mark: +1

Steven: +1

Action Items

<scribe> ACTION: Manu to finalize RDFa IG charter template. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [CONTINUES]

Manu: Sent e-mail to Ralph... waiting for response

<scribe> ACTION: Shane to produce proposed diff re: XMLLiteral change [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action03] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: Manu to get permission from his board to co-chair RDFa WG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

RDFa WG

Ben: One of the things we need to produce is RDFa 1.1
... Don't know if it includes @profile or not
... This next group may have to define how to define how to do RDFa in HTML5.
... There are people doing RDFa in HTML5 - it needs to be defined for HTML5
... The chance of RDFa getting into HTML5 is unknown at this point.
... Maybe RDFa WG needs to provide guidance for HTML5+RDFa

Steven: Part of the discussion is "Where should RDFa reside"?
... The current discussion is which activity RDFa should be in (Semantic Web or HTML)

Ben: The scope should be XHTML+RDFa and provide guidance to Interaction WG on implementing RDFa
... If HTML WG fails to provide guidance, RDFa WG would provide guidance to the community.

Steven: We have to be a WG, we can't be an IG.

Mark: If you think about the occasions where we've made progress, it's been where we've been blunt.
... We should present this as a Note - we present the solution and W3C should figure out how to make it happen.

Steven: We can do this according to HTML5 rules.

<Steven> I like the idea of a note

Ben: We need to help HTML WG figure out their process - RDFa is one mechanism to do that.
... So we should proceed in parallel.

Mark: We should continue to evangelize RDFa - focus on building tools, etc.
... XBL has been around for years as a W3C Note.
... We feel that guidance is necessary for HTML5+RDFa and we need to push out new features for RDFa that people are asking for.

Ben: Right, we shouldn't block on HTML WG.

+1 for W3C Note running in parallel

Ben: What needs to be in the W3C Note?
... This is what we want to do:
... RDFa in XHTML v1.1
... Guidance on HTML+RDFa
... Primer update
... Guidance on implementation to web community.
... Those are the things that the RDFa WG would focus on.

Steven: It should be in the Semantic Web community and not the Interaction community (HTML, Forms, etc.)

<msporny> ACTION: Ben to create RDFa WG charter template. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

HTML5+RDFa Remaining Issues

Manu: the main issue remaining in HTML5+RDFa is xmlns issue
... all other issues are small
... xmlns preserved in DOM in browsers today, so no technical issue
... only issue is with authoring guidance, xmlns is invalid HTML5, though valid XHTML5.
... even then, just a warning.
... potential proposal: don't warn on xmlns
... proposed a month ago HTML5+RDFa draft that modifies HTML5 spec and includes RDFa by reference to XHTML1.1 version of RDFa
... exactly what Shane did for HTML4+RDFa
... will propose this to the HTML WG once we have figured out the process.
... feel that we have to try and, if it fails, demonstrate that it failed.
... considering multiple approaches: 1) RDFa in, microdata stays, 2) microdata extracted to own spec, RDFa as a similar add-on spec, both referenced from HTML5
... 3) no microdata or RDFa in HTML5, create external specs.
... no idea how the community will react to them.

Mark: good to keep engaging, but important to have other things moving forward, too. Many communities we're addressing.
... but this isn't the only route, there is community momentum for doing RDFa in HTML5.
... people are doing this already.

Manu: mark is right, the tracks have to be parallel.
... but message has to be the same across these threads.

Mark: We should move in parallel

Manu: Yes we should

Mark: Microdata takes more markup to indicate the same thing as RDFa.

Mark: People claim that Microdata is simpler, but even with license markup, it takes more markup to express something as simple as a license.
... Microdata is a joke.
... Although, we should trust the community to flush out the problems with Microdata.

Ben: I'll update the charter to be a WG charter proposal.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Ben to create RDFa WG charter template. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Manu to get permission from his board to co-chair RDFa WG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
 
[DROPPED] ACTION: Manu to finalize RDFa IG charter template. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
[PENDING] ACTION: Shane to produce proposed diff re: XMLLiteral change [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2009/08/20 20:11:38 $