Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference

 

 

<jsalvachua> zakim aabb is me

<jsalvachua> oh i see ;)

<jsalvachua> thanks matt

<hhalpin> scribe: hhalpin

Minutes:

http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html

PROPOSED: Approve July 8th minutes?

<tinkster> +1

<tpa> +1

<oshani> +1

RESOLUTION: July 8th minutes approved.

Note that DKA will be gone for 3 weeks following.

next meeting

Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-07-15T13:00-15:00Z

SimonTenant: Signed in to talk about Oslo

<cperey> +1

It doesn't appear Mischa is on the call

[CONTINUTES] ACTION: Mischa to write up Soren and Jonathan's findings from last telecon for final report.

<tinkster> Aha, speak of the devil!

<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri circulate wookie proposal to the xg [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action01]

<mischat> hello all, I dont have voice today, I am sorry

no problem mischa

any luck on the actions?

cperey: Note that Christley from Gypsii is next invited speaker

<mischat> nope I have been doing thesis, I will get them done by the next meeting

General Organization and Task Forces

hhalpin: I propose that we then focus on next meeting

User Stories

<cperey> My action was finished!

<cperey> about a month or 6 weeks ago

<cperey> I tried to close it out

<cperey> but the service didn't "accept"

cperey: I posted my list
... the main challenge is how do we integrate this list
... we should then leave them on.
... we have had list-serv discussions
... does it include content sharing services?
... should we have a W3C approved definition?
... An industry definition?
... we need a relevant open item.

<cperey> +1

<cperey> a principled way of doing metrics

<cperey> I'm really keen to do this

<mischat> +1

<cperey> harry will look at the schedule to see when we can have a metrics discussoin

hhalpin: let's have a metric discussion

DKA: have it for next week call

<cperey> I will not be available July 29

DKA: Or for next call.

cperey: relevant for next call

hhalpin: useful summary report

cperey: will push to list the past e-mails on this subject

<cperey> I will point to the past posts on this topic

<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri circulate wookie proposal to the xg [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action02]

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action03]

<hhalpin> ACTION: [DONE] Sören to propose addition to the template for user stories for privacy conditions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action04]

<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] adam to write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action05]

<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] hhalpin to write up the social network data exchange story [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action06]

<hhalpin> ACTION: [DONE] danbri to write up widget business story. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action07]

<hhalpin> ACTION: [DONE] jsalvachua to write up business use-case with the company he's been working with. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action08]

<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri to write up widget business story. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action09]

<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] tpa to look for similar use cases list to expand ours [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action10]

<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] tinkster to document danbri's microblogging provenance question as a user story. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action11]

<jsalvachua> i wrote, just in time, a first version its on the wiki

yep, it's marked as done.

DKA: Simon Tenant, guest spaker

<SimonTenant:> We are one of the founders of mobile start-up Buddycloud

<SimonTenant:> Geolocation is one of the elements of the a larger product

SimonTenant: looked at Google's efforts
... applicaitons like Rumble, using location to recommend relevant restaurants

<mischat> is there a url for the OSLO alliance

<mischat> ?

SimonTenant: buddycloud shows you nearby friends
... we started talking between each other that
... we need to avoid an AOL IM scenario
... too many different ways to do this
... we wanted to come up with a way for this to be done
... about 30 similar companies
... it's where we've come from for OSLO.
... we have working code
... working federation now
... so its working quite well
... we're working through the teething problems
... we're not trying to reinvent the wheel
... we're on 13 signatories to first press release
... looking at best of breed activities.
... some talk of XMPP
... we run on top of XMPP

<oshani> mischat, http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/02/23/oslo-alliance-wants-to-share-location-across-networks/ (from the agenda)

<mischat> thanks oshani

SimonTenant: we've applied a very light specification on top of XMPP.

<matt> the code (I believe)

SimonTenant: these are the simple situations
... privacy, kickback of error

SimonTentant: Light touch on top of exiting technologies, so within 2 months we have working code and federation between Akai-Akai and BuddyCloud
... we use XMPP to push this sort of stuff out
... similar to instant messenger list
... push location out in particular
... the other side, these networks rely on mobile phone
... these applications are running 24 seven
... but mobile phone batteries can't handle this
... by not default your not just popping up to everyone nearby
... but to people that allow them "opt-in"
... much more exciting for users
... great business driver

<DKA> Simon also noted: the increased number of users available via OSLO chairing is a business driver...

<SimonTennant:> We can finally see mobile location based advertising actually happen

<SimonTennant:> nearby advertisements is a driver

<SimonTennant:> OSLO is a way to help standardise location-sharing in real-time

<SimonTennant:> oslo is open, no master list of companies which can join

<SimonTennant:> to join all you have to do is publish a statement in dns saying that you can share geo location

<SimonTennant:> there is a trust network, networks can dictate which other networks they wish to share with

<SimonTennant:> users are in control of who they share their location with

<SimonTennant:> user love sharing location, just like facebook, can live with out

<SimonTennant:> privacy policies, users should always be able to opt-out of sharing location

<SimonTennant:> as well as giving user a level of granularity to control who they share their location with

<SimonTennant:> oslo plan to release code in the next couple of weeks

<SimonTennant:> oslo allows people to share location between networks

oslo should scale,

DKA> you talk about user's ability to select which networks to share with, and how networks can decide to who other networks to share with, have you owriten this up ?

SimonTenant:> no not yet, but good idea, and oslo should write this up

<tinkster> here again - http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/

matt: is all of the work happening at the code.google.com url above ^^?

SimonTenant: yes, but we need to commit to svn more often

matt: Have you thought about taking this a standards body ?

SimonTeant: oslo doesn't state how you get your location, this is up the client/user, oslo is more about best practises when it comes to sharing location

<tinkster> OSLO = server-to-server communication of location, rather than user-to-server or user-to-user.

<jsalvachua> i agree is a wonderful work.

so much more context about a user, other than just location, would be nice to be able to share more than just location, oslo would like integrate/be involved with any other context sharing

SimonTenant:> oslo hasn't created lots of code, BSD license, based on XMPP and other open technologies

Oshani:>: does oslo handle location history ?

SimonTenant:> oslo is about real-time sharing of location

<cperey> sounds like location history saving policies are a place for user education/best practices

<tinkster> A "time to live" on each piece of location data?

<melvster> oslo-protocol nearby object query spec: http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/wiki/NearbyObjectQuerySpec

you have to trust your friends to not store/create histories of ones location

<matt>

><DKA>introduces matt, w3c team contact for geolocation working group

they outputted the javascript geolocation API

<matt> Last Call WD

the last call was last week

there is a public geolocation API mailing list

the API is entirely based on javascript

it is implemented in Opera, Safari, andriod, google gears plugin

and ff3.5 all implementing the geo location API

API is very simple, the ability to get a one shot geo-location, and it can be used to track your position

<matt> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-geolocation-API-20090707/#security

it is only a client side specification

privacy is only considered at a wording level

you can try this out with google maps, and ff 3.5

you should be able to see where you are

the geolocation API does not dictate how the user's location is located

it could get the location from wifi-triangulation, based on IP address gazatteer

currently considering more address based location descriptions, other than just lat/long

for example, I am near a coffee shop, or near this address

<inserted> Hhalpin: hhalpin

<mischat> sure hhalpin

DKA: has the group talked around any scenarios about privacy?

Matt: privacy is about 90 percent of the volume on the mailing list
... we've tried to go a number of ways
... IETF geopriv people came in
... completely different use-cases
... they were more towards how location is shared on wire
... emergency services
... a service built into a cable modem

<oshani> here's one use case I drafted on the wiki based on geo location: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Inferences_on_location_based_contextual_data

matt: life or death issues
... in contrast, we are dealing with different use-cases
... we are talking about "find me the nearest starbucks"
... completely different privacy needs there
... we thought about including in API the user's privacy preferences

<tinkster> Probably not going to use Javascript to report life-or-death emergencies.

matt: including rights within the API
... but bad people will do bad things and we cannot stop them with the API but we will let browser take care of it.
... otherwise, we ended up not including most discussed privacy work
... we imagine other device APIs
... so now we have a Device API and Policy WG
... we don't want each API to have a different take on privacy

DKA: I understand that the geolocation API decided not to deal with the question in the WG
... is there anywhere we in this XG should look to harvest some of this privacy related work?

<DKA> Simon

Simon: the demos I've seen have always used Skyhooks

SimonTenant: Why not use BuddyCloud?

Matt: We didn't include hooks for this in the API
...: How much knowledge do we expect users to have

matt: again, we punted this to the browser
... so the google gears plug-in is the editor
... of the geolocation APIgoogle gears has a lot of work on this
... mozilla's implementation allows users to change this
... had some JSON specification
... but not baked into API.

<tinkster> Geolocation API = assumes that the browser knows where the user is located, and provides an API to allow Javascript to access it.

SimonTenant: Thanks!

hhalpin: long term prospects for interoperability, given convergence of browser and mobile

Simon: We have a specification to get location, and another one to continously sharing

<tinkster> To an extent, as they each use WGS84, they're already pretty interoperable.

Simon: There is nothing to prevent Oslo to use geolocation API to get the location, and then sharing it via Oslo.

matt: we could not have said it better
... they work well together

thanks!

DKA: Thanks for coming on the call

<matt> Thanks for having us!

<cperey> are these speakers going to be joining teh SWXG mailing list?

<cperey> the topic of context will be increasingly important

<matt> Geolocation WG's mailing list

<hhalpin> we should definitely get someone on that geolocation WG list.

<mischat> bye all

<Adam> thank you to the speakers!

<hhalpin> ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action12]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-07-22].