SVG Working Group Teleconference

22 Jun 2009


See also: IRC log


Shepazu, anthony, heycam, jwatt




<trackbot> Date: 22 June 2009

<scribe> Scribe: anthony

Remaining 1.1 errata to be folded in and tests to be written


AG: I have about two or three tests to write

CM: Still a few errata that needs to be folded in still
... clip path one
... and Liveness of getIntersectionList

JW: Still have to do that one

DS: JW had a few problems with the clip path one

JW: Re pointer events

DS: Yes
... don't think we should think about rolling this out until JW can get back and finish his quota

JW: I should get back to that next week

AG: Still need to run the script over test suite

CM: Is the comment history lost in the conversion?

AG: Yes
... I like what Erik has done on the wiki page with commenting what tests have been done
... and what needs to be done

CM: Good idea
... Mobile 1.1 spec was fixed to have dated links
... so we will be ok for publishing

AG: You did the changes CM?

CM: Yes

Mailing minutes to www-svg

CM: DS You've emailed out about this?

DS: I saw your reminder and have done it
... thought it would be a good idea before minutes get sent out

CM: It would be good if CL was here to discuss it further

AG: I'm ok with proposal

JW: Do we need to discuss further the disclaimer on each email?

DS: Don't think so

JW: Don't think we need to put a disclaimer when we send minutes?

DS: Anyone who is already subscribed to the list is already going to know about it
... lets not bother with sending a disclaimer
... so what this means when we send the minutes we will send them to www-svg like we would normally and BCC the public-svg-wg list

AG: Usage of public-svg-wg?

CM: Still used for technical discussion

DS: It says in the minutes it says most of our technical work will take place on the working group list
... that is what we are charted to do
... I think we should do what comes naturally next
... CL will probably want to conduct work on the working group list
... for conversations that start from minutes will be on the www-svg list
... the public might have comments

CM: We'd expect most of the comments from the public to be positive

<heycam> (joke)

DS: conversations will happen wherever it seems more natural, even though charter historically says we'll work on WG list

DVCS for SVG WG work

CM: I emailed Dominic on W3C who works part time on the systems team
... and asked if it was possible to set up DVCS
... JW you have good experience with Mercurial
... Dominic replied to me saying the systems team doesn't have enough resources to set that up
... During the F2F we discussed one of us hosting the repository
... That has the downside of the repository not being on a W3C address

DS: Didn't Dom say that we could host it on W3C but someone in the team would have to do it

CM: He said it would be more cost effective for someone in the group to host it

DS: Wondering if I could put it on my personal space
... I think I can run scripts
... I'd need root access?

JW: It's a repository where people can copy from
... but can't push back
... unless you have root access
... If the team doesn't have the resources we either continue working with stuff
... that's getting further behind
... or break away and move to something new

DS: I'm not particularly comfortable with having work on another server
... makes it hard to find out what's going on

<ed_work> nothing prevents someone from running a dvcs solution locally and then committing changes to cvs

DS: would rather tackle it head on and find resources for W3C space
... rather than push work out
... I'd rather push the issue with the systems team

<ed_work> and yes, I agree with DS that the main repo should be hosted at w3c

DS: and at least get them to give me root access to set those things up
... are we experienced enough to know exactly what needs doing?

JW: No

DS: Step 1 is to know exactly what we are asking of them

JW: I can start step 2 or 3 before going to them
... another step to take is to set up a dummy repository
... so that people who are not familiar with DVCS can get to know it better
... does that make sense?

DS: No

JW: So it's just the members that will be using DVCS?

DS: Yes
... so you're saying we should test it out to see if that's what we really really want?

CM: I have a feeling that the systems team want to set it up
... so it will integrate into their Database
... to make it easier to set permissions

JW: I've tried an SSH key thing with this and I don't know if it will that bigger change
... but I will check with the Mozilla people
... and get step by step instructions on what's involved

DS: You could check with them if they are willing to help the systems team to set it up
... should find other resources that are willing to help out the systems team
... not sure if they're open to that
... but if you can find out, we can go from there

CM: I do have root access on my hosted machine
... So if we want to set up a test machine
... I can put it on there
... one of the worries you had DS was it moves things more out of the team

DS: Yes and I think it's harder for people to discover what's going on
... and decreases the W3 value and brand

CM: It would be a shame to lose some of the services
... well experimenting with the system and JW finding out if he can get information on setting it up
... is a good way forward
... not sure how open the systems team is with getting help

DS: One problem is some things are team confidential
... we have people who are members of the team who are W3C fellows
... they have team access but work for another employer
... I don't see how it would be much different

public-svg-wg: SVG 1.2 Animation question


CM: Someone from Quickoffice pointing out an error in one of the tests
... One of the tests is testing for calling beginElement and endElement for methods on timeControl
... and they insert begin and end on the elements
... and he thinks one of tests shouldn't begin an animation when beginElement is called
... the test description assumes that should work
... but according to the SMIL spec it shouldn't work
... he attached a reduced version of the test slide
... and I read through the SMIL spec
... and went through the test slide
... and I agree with him, at least for the reduced version

AG: Is there any problems in Tiny at all?

CM: All the info is in SMIL spec. We refer to it
... I will confirm that the actual problem is in the test
... and email back to the list

<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to Check udom-svg-209.svg test case for the problem of beginElement pointed out by Quickoffice [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2626 - Check udom-svg-209.svg test case for the problem of beginElement pointed out by Quickoffice [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-06-29].

CM: We should fix any issues pointed out and republish the test suite

www-svg: icc color profile valid names


CM: Email about what are valid names for icc-profile
... CL added some syntax the colour module
... I have an action to port those changes back to 1.1 2nd edition
... someone should reply to him point back to the module
... and mention it will be ported across

www-svg: accessKey - label and alternative keys


CM: Simon was asking about accessKeys
... I think he's asking about giving a particular label to animation starting and animation finishing
... and wants to extract from the document
... start animation and have some associated access key
... suggests a couple of ways to include that information

<ed_work> hmm...I was almost certain that I did respond to this

<ed_work> the problem with the label() syntax is that it causes the begin/end value to be interpreted as "indefinite"

CM: I guess it's syntax currently not allowed

<ed_work> I'd originally thought it was per list-item, but it's actually the whole value

DS: I think accessKey is pretty crappy
... the access specification on XHTML 2 Access spec also has the same functionality along with some interesting functionality
... This is also something I'm looking at in the context of DOM3 Events
... on problem with accessKey is it only allows you to type characters
... it doesn't allow you to say on tap do this or on shift do this
... this is something that could be solved by the key identifiers in DOM3 Events
... so rather than giving a list of keys

<ed_work> that's not the concern he's raising though, it's more about labelling what accesskey actions there are (for discoverability)

DS: they give a list of key identifiers
... I understand what ED is saying
... I'm just saying that patching up an old system is probably not a good idea
... I don't mind patching it up
... but I'd rather we came up with a better solution

<heycam> ed_work, did your reply deal with the labelling aspect (modulo where you'd put that information)?

<ed_work> it's really not about patching up, even in ARIA there's no way to label an attribute in a way that can be used for begin/end

<ed_work> one solution might be to have some attribute to associate a <title> with a particular attribute, role or aria-*

DS: Within the constraints that Dr Olaf mentioned, I don't mind making the accessKey in SVG similar to the accessKey in HTML5 I just don't think it's a very good long term solution

CM: What about the issue of labeling?

DS: You mean discoverability?

CM: Yes

DS: Comes down to UA dependent

CM: I think he has particular UI in mind and wants to have some custom label string so it can be put in UI somewhere

DS: You mean labeling?

CM: Yes

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/ED-xhtml-access-20090423/

<ed_work> adding an 'aria-attributelabel' that has as value the name of the attribute it describes maybe, then having multiple title elements as children of the animate/animateMotion or whatever

DS: Basically mimics a screen reader in some ways
... Tie something to a role or class
... Having the child text content of this element can be used the label for the navigation ring or something

CM: Instead of the title ement?

DS: Yes
... It doesn't define what the behaviour would be, you can either navigate to it or navigate to other elements
... in the case of SVG animation you might want to define a set of behaviours
... stop, start

CM: With the animation element, but with other elements perhaps other things

DS: I'd like to do things declaratively. I'd like to describe what those keys map to and then describe them in the body of the element

CM: Let's wait for ED to find the email reply and forward it to the thread

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to Check udom-svg-209.svg test case for the problem of beginElement pointed out by Quickoffice [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2009/06/22 08:10:09 $

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Succeeded: s/It would be CL if he was here to discuss it further/It would be good if CL was here to discuss it further/
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Found Scribe: anthony
Inferring ScribeNick: anthony
Default Present: Shepazu, anthony, heycam, jwatt
Present: Shepazu anthony heycam jwatt
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009AprJun/0232.html
Found Date: 22 Jun 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/06/22-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: cameron

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