See also: IRC log
<scribe> Chair: DKA
<scribe> Scribe: tpa
DKA: meeting convened.
<hhalpin> RESOLVED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 3 June 2009 as a true record
<hhalpin> RESOLVED: to meet again Wed, 17 June. scribe volunteer?
Claudio sent some emails about task forces.
<hhalpin> According to our brand new Zakim list, http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/ScribeList, Phil Archer should scribe next.
DKA: Task forces need to be chartered
<hhalpin> Will e-mail him a reminder.
DKA: we need to collect information on the wiki
Harry: we should figure out which
task forces want to do which meetings
... schedule which conf call is dedicated to which task force
... also figure out how to handle Portability
... what could be the topics of the task forces
... maybe put that on the wiki
DKA: maybe dedicate the next call to Context and Privacy?
<tinkster> echo on the line coming from somewhere?
DKA: do some homework in the
coming weeks to come up with initiatives that revolve around
Context and catalog them, their level of involvement in
... we give the example of location being key
... they could be associated with safety of child safety issues
DKA: those could be useful to define a shared view of Context, both from an industrial and an academic perspective
<hhalpin> What I'll do is I'll put the agenda format on the wiki asap so people can add context and privacy related items to agenda all over the next week.
<hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to start putting agenda on wiki day after meeting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/10-swxg-minutes.html#action01]
DKA: especially how they mesh
with the mobile and social media spaces
... requests caffeine injections into XG members
<cperey> if I unmute I will only cough into the conference call :-(
Harry: we need to look at Renato's policy comments and ideas
<bblfish> there wer a few talks on policy at the eswc spot track in crete
Adam: send a reading list before each confcall?
<bblfish> here http://spot2009.semanticweb.org/
<bblfish> here are the papers: http://spot2009.semanticweb.org/papers
<hhalpin> For context, it would be useful if someone involved in WebApps sort of put forward a list of context-capable APIs.
<hhalpin> And debriefed us on Mobile Web W3C Activity.
DKA: we should focus immediate actions and reading on Context and Privacy.
<rreck> the reading links will be on the listserv or wiki?
Harry: we also need to define overall scope.
Harry: regarding Portability, we already have some work going on with FOAF and vCard but we need to focuse on mapping between networks for Interoperability
Matthew: we have been looking at how functionalities in social networks overlap and can be mapped
<rreck> where can i read more about the mappings?
<hhalpin> Check on that web-page.
Matthew: we're looking into providing schematics on how to standardize this mapping, we're looking for feedback
<hhalpin> I also think ASemantics had a mapping somewhere....not sure if they're on the call.
DKA: anything else also on XMPP?
Harry: yes, there's a lot of activity around Google Wave. Peter Saint Andre has accepted our invitation but we need to set a date. Maybe he can debrief us on XMPP
DKA: dedicate each call to a
specific topic or task force?
... maybe for the call on the 24th, we could center it around this task force?
... But is there a charter for those task forces or a definition?
Harry: no, no leader or scoping either.
DKA: if we spin off a taskforce, we need a leader for it, could be a co-chair, should have a delivery statement
<jsalvachua> i can do it
Harry: proposes Joaquin
... or Peter Ferne
<jsalvachua> zakim unmute me
<hhalpin> Yes, agree that Portability needs a better scoping statement, I remember Joaquin having some good ideas.
Joaquin: I can try to do this.
<jsalvachua> yes. i will do it
<hhalpin> ACTION: joaquin to write up draft scoping and definition for portability and architecture task force. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/10-swxg-minutes.html#action02]
<hhalpin> RESOLVED: Next week about context, week after portability.
DKA: we took a decision to do the next call around Portability? We need a mission statement and a leader the Context and Privacy TF, maybe Claudio?
<rreck> Claudio made leader in abstentia ?
Harry: propose to meet at TPAC or the Internet Identify Workshop
Harry: entrance fee is low, around $60 hotel and travel not included
<bblfish> we should have a meeting
<caribou> fee is $50/day
<cperey> the objectives?
Harry: Do we want to meet at TPAC?
<bblfish> last one was in Europe, good to have on in USA
Harry: Usually fun and nice.
<hhalpin> The main problem is we NEED to tell W3C asap.
DKA: we need to take the W3C up on this offer
<bblfish> I enjoyed the spain one
<hhalpin> Which two days?
<hhalpin> One meeting?
<hhalpin> open meeting?
DKA: and bring additional people
from the community, participants from start-ups and other
companies that may not be participating in W3C
... but we need to communicate to W3C what our requirements are, for example a bigger room on one of the days
Harry: the main issue is really if we can get 10 people minimum there, otherwise it's not worth doing
Harry: the other thing is that there is this Internet Identify Workshop running in parallel
<bblfish> is the internet identity workshop at exactly the same time?
Harry: lot of the OAuth, XRI,
Facebook, Myspace people would be at that workshop.
... it runs a little shorter than TPAC and in another building down the road
... maybe pick Friday as the open day?
DKA: who would be able to attend?
<AdamB> i would likely be able to
<pchampin> probably not :-(
<rreck> i would like to go, but i cannot commit to it
<bblfish> I'd like to, but a bit difficult to say at this point, as there are a lot of unknows with Oracle takeover between now and then
<tinkster> probably not.
<FabGandon> +1 for TPAC
<jsalvachua> not sure, depend if i get funding from university
<milstan> most likely not :(
<pchampin> a few days, actually
Harry: for researchers you could work in around the Semantic Web conference in DC
<scribe> ACTION: Harry to open poll about the subject [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/10-swxg-minutes.html#action03]
<bblfish> plus there should be a lot of people in the bay area
<bblfish> that can come
Harry: we should move fast and
book the room
... with TPAC
<cperey> maybe link it to the November 2009 events wiki page
<hhalpin> RESOLVED: Book a room for TPAC 2009.
Harry: Christine also proposed another idea which was to do another workshop
DKA: I see the open day at TPAC being the same thing as doing another XG workshop
<hhalpin> Also, Ian Jacobs of W3C wanted to have a open day.
DKA: it's more cost effective to do it inside TPAC
Harry: doing it inside TPAC fulfills other requirements as well
<bblfish> hhalpin: what is the other semweb conference at the same time?
<hhalpin> notes that for people like myself who are into the Semantic Web, International Semantic Web Conference: http://iswc2009.semanticweb.org/
Harry: Karl was talking to the open microblogging people
Karl: had a mail exchange with
Evan, not available right now, will be back at the end of June,
interested, we need to figure what we want him to talk
... There's no issue about having him as an invited guest, we just need to work with him to define what he'll be talking to us about.
Harry: there are a lot of interesting subjects around microblogging, XMPP and OAuth
<tinkster> SIOC is not a million miles away either.
Harry: XMPP to do Google
Wave-type microblogging, OAuth working in the back, etc.
... Asking him point blank "what do you want W3C to do with this?", why and how to standardize microblogging
... SIOC is also related
Cloud: I talked to Evan and the microblogging people
<tinkster> Also of interest - http://wiki.sioc-project.org/index.php/IdenticaSiocData
<hhalpin> john: they can ping as many microblogs to send over
<hhalpin> john: data is stored using SIOC and FOAF
<DKA> I came across this possibly related effort recently: http://twitterdata.org/
Harry: John, what's the relationship between open microblogging & semantic microblogging ?
John: we try to make them compatible but haven't gotten there
<hhalpin> john: we wanted to allow the client/server system to work with open-microblogging
<hhalpin> john: we are allowing people to embed semantics inside microblogs themselves
<hhalpin> ... but we can allow the micrblogged content distributed across different sites
<hhalpin> ... we could use twitterdata, starpriority, microsyntax, which look at embedding RDF or microformat-like semantic syntax into microblog posts
Harry: sounds like there's 2
distincts things going on
... 1) is transfer of the messages and 2) how to embed semantics inside a message
<mattroweshow> smob looked at the embedding of semantics
Harry: maybe do a separate call on (2) later on? Could be a productive meeting to have?
<tinkster> http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/microturtle/spec is my RDF-in-microblogging idea. It's a bit crazy, but works.
DKA: if anybody has any contact working on Twitter data, microsyntax efforts, etc. it would be nice to have them on the 1st of July call
<hhalpin> That is more "microformats for microblogs"
<Cloud> Thanks tinkster!
<scribe> ACTION: Karl to follow up with Evan, see if that date works. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/10-swxg-minutes.html#action04]
<tinkster> Also relevant - http://microformats.org/wiki/picoformats
<hhalpin> RDF could be considered a kiloformat :)
<tinkster> I think pico is as small as anyone's gone so far.
Harry: we haven't actually included XMPP or DataPortability folks yet
<tinkster> http://microformats.org/wiki/twitter-nanoformats (a thousand times bigger than picoformats?)
<Cloud> Also http://civilities.net/Star_Priority_Notation
Harry: maybe continue that action and try to get them on the line
<hhalpin> Media 2.0 Best Practices
<hhalpin> Its mostly a sort manifesto about user rights over data.
<scribe> ACTION: Harry to make DKA's day [RESOLVED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/10-swxg-minutes.html#action05]
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] Renato and DanBri and hhalpin to schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/10-swxg-minutes.html#action06]
<hhalpin> Update from hajons or cperey, or continue actions?
<cperey> it is just part of the Invited Guests list
<hhalpin> [CONTINUE] ACTION: hakon to ask Terry Eagle and Sandy Pentland for guest telecon
DKA: people have been listing and annotating user stories
<rreck> i agree we should refine the userstories
DKA: is it worth assigning an editor to those?
<hhalpin> +1 for editor or two editors to user stories
<AdamB> +1 on focused discussion of user stories
DKA: Could be good to add some consistency to them.
<rreck> +1 focused discussion
<cperey> or create a new one
<cperey> at a different day/time
Harry: If someone could take responsibility for this, that'd be great, then we could take a telecon to discuss them.
DKA: has anybody been particularly active with the user stories?
<hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to make a calendar of topics for upcoming Social Web XGs [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/10-swxg-minutes.html#action07]
<tinkster> 1st July Semantic Microblogging ++
DKA: if the 1st of July is too soon for a microblogging call, maybe dedicate it instead to user stories?
<lubna> +1 focused discussion
DKA: anybody in playing an editorial role on user stories?
<rreck> not all at once
<hhalpin> Tim Anglade volunteers to edit stories?
<hhalpin> Tim Anglade volunteers!
Tim: volunteers, but not very involved with stories so far, would accept help.
<scribe> ACTION: Tim to W3C-style "edit" user stories on http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/10-swxg-minutes.html#action08]
<bblfish> ah we are on user stories
<FabGandon> I can be co-editor with Tim if he wants help.
DKA: we need to come up with an action plan or set of recommendations about what we like, or what we need to fill the next ones correctly
<hhalpin> Fabien Gandon
DKA: would be useful from an editorial perspective
Fabien: volunteers to co-edit the user stories with Tim.
<bblfish> yes there is a lot of difference between the User Stories. Some of them are very simple, some are extreemly long and complex
Harry: with the matrix, Christine was asking why we were drafting yet another list of Social Networks
<rreck> ED ?
DKA: annotate the stories on the
same page to see how people interact with social media
... one of the outputs of that is something that could be digestable by a non-technical audience
... and here's how they map with the technologies out of the community
<bblfish> yes, I wonder if info about the US should be on the same page as the technologies that can be used to implement them
DKA: the matrix should be next to
the user stories. Maybe figure that out on July 1st
... during the call, live edit the wiki page and structure it all out.
<hhalpin> Sounds good to me.
<cperey> do you intend to link use cases with specific community services?
<cperey> but the theme has been that we need to have more definitions
<cperey> at least that was a question I asked
<cperey> what was "in" and why
<bblfish> the danger of a matrix is that it max show us what exists currently, but not show where to go. Or the past may overwhelm the future
<tinkster> i.e. how do we define "Social Network"?
<cperey> the list could be infinite
<bblfish> I find the user stories more interesting
also, it's hard to figure out where to put some initiatives in the matrices I've seen so far
<cperey> agree entirely
<AdamB> could one of the sections (in the wiki / final report) be about looking forward
DKA: my interest is not so much in the popular community services, but the community services that are kind of popping up
<cperey> I will sign off in 1.5 minutes
DKA: but it's a moving target, so it's hard to keep a document up-to-date for that
<bblfish> but, of course, it is good to have a list of sites, as a basis to develop ideas on how they could leverage a social web to make it easier for their users
<mattroweshow> So is the idea of the matrix to show the specific functionalities that are similar and different on different social networking sites?
DKA: other thoughts on the matrix, maybe do a review, add some additional information?
Harry: no one wants to do that
... From the use case document, we could extract functionalities, potential functionalities and do other matrices by other definitions
... list them by website, to be able to compare
<bblfish> agree with hhalpin
Harry: Sort of an empirical grounding of the functionality that we want
Harry: Maybe exhibit popular networks that, as it turns out, don't offer much in the way of functionalities, etc.
<hhalpin> it's a bit of a ltater process.
<hhalpin> it's a bit of a later process, it's less important than the user stories and best practices.
DKA: if we can find data that shows these companies or services open themselves up, use those particular technologies and have been reporting success
<hhalpin> but I thought we could at least get the matrix together.
<mattroweshow> could allow ranking of sns by adoption of standards?
DKA: Show they don't do it just because it's open but because it brings success, it could be a good argument
<hhalpin> +1 matthew
<rreck> it would be nice to see which userstories could apply to which networking sites
DKA: We should be collecting that information as well, from an industry perspective
<mattroweshow> +1 rreck
<bblfish> the matrix gives a background picture of what is happening. So in some ideas one can look at what the sites do and then imagine how one could do the same in an open web
Harry: the user stories could be important as well, by the time our guidelines emerge from those use cases, we'd have enough to boostrap a list
<hhalpin> Shall we adjourn meeting?
DKA: we need to end the
... move to adjourn
<tinkster> bye all!
<Cloud> Thanks everyone - bye!
<hhalpin> Adjourn meeting
<AdamB> thanks, adios
<bblfish> is this all for today? I thought it was going on for 2 hours
DKA: next call will be about Context