Social Web Incubator Group

<AlexKorth> we're starting up just in time: Facebook Shuts Down RSS Feed App http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_shuts_down_rss_feed_app.php

<hhalpin> Wow.

<AlexKorth> so I guess it's one of our main challenges to propose a solution to combine openness/accessibility and privacy

<jsalvachua> well an atom feed with some auth may help to substitute, but i think Facebook wont agree, AlexKorth

DKA: i am one of the cochairs
... i sent intro to the @@url
... along with danbri and hhalpin who are also on the line

<PhilA> Scribe: DanBri

(gsm noise interference ... pls move it away ...)

<PhilA> ScribeNick: DanBri

please be scrupulous bout muting yourself while not speaking

scribe: and as a matter of housekeeping, we have an irc channel that goes along with most calls

this more than a nice-to-have it is an essetnial part of all w3c calls

reason is that the minutes are taken into the irc channel

this means that ... you can watch the minutes being taken as it happens

you can correct, add, ... if you are mis-scribed you can correct that

scribe: strawpolls can be taken in irc, etc

so participating in the irc channel, for those not familiar, it might sound a bit nerdy

scribe: "well i'll just dial-in" ,...

scribe: but instead i really encourage you to all get used to IRC
... you will get a much richer experience out of it

scribe: interact in a bettter way

DKA: as we have limited time and a large group
... we will go with harry's agenda
... (see topic in irc)

<FabGandon> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html

<mischat_> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html

<hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html

:)

<tinkster> (It's the channel topic too.)

<PhilA> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html

DKA: kicking right off... with introductions
... for those of you who joined after i said this: please be scrupulous about muting
... even if you don't think you need to
... all that noise adds up!

brief intros:

<FabGandon> The Zakim commands are here : http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot

roll call, ... brief intros ...

harry: yes, that's what i meant ... BRIEF!

<tinkster> Seems 314 could be Bristol.

hi henry

<AlexKorth> sorry, I am skyping in from portugal. I dont know who I am ;)

one thing we can do is "mute xyz" or "who is speaking?", but both are a bit invasive

<petef> is petef on the call?

(I am not going to scribe this "who is 1.123.456 etc... discussion :)

<FabGandon> for those who don't have a client we may suggest http://mibbit.com/chat/

<Linas> Hi, I am Linas from Alcatel-Lucent Bell Labs Research in France

<BenG> BenG = Benjamin Nguyen from UVSQ

(for roll call, if you have urls to your mailing list intro that would be great for the minutes)

Introductions

Roll call:

Jed ...

<dom> Jed's intro

scribe: works for small consultancy in san diego, ... social media, .gov, ...
... internet policy in washington folk, a consultant not a policy maker, staying abreast of standards, ...

Marie: ... UPC from Barcelona

Oshani:

<dom> Oshani's intro

Oshani: student from MIT, work on issues related to privacy and accountability on the Web. Interested in applying research we're doing to social web related activities in the XG

<dom> Pierre-Antoine Champin's intro

pchampin:

<bblfish> +1 Henry Story present

pchampin, Pierra-Antoine Champin, associate professor in france see url http://www.w3.org/mid/4A0163D7.5070209@champin.net

Miquel: ... from ... research labs in germany, heidelberg
... working on distrib id management, ...

Rreck: Ron Reck ...

<dom> Ronald Reck's intro

<FabGandon> my homepage http://fabien.info

fabien gandon: inria research, fr

see homepage :)

<dom> DKA's intro

DFA, Daniel Appelquist ... vodafone ac rep, co-chair, ...

<dom> PhilA's intro

Phil Archer (PhilA): in this xg i represent greek national centre for research in athems

athens

scribe: interested in social network openness, but also privacy concerns

<tinkster> PhilA wants to grab our data but keep his private ;-)

<dom> Christine Perey's intro

Christen Perey (cperey), mobile social networking consultant, co-chaired barcelona workshop

<dom> Linas' intro

Linas: from Lucent/Bell ...

Linas: social comms dept
... bridging social nets analysis world with telecoms world

BenG: from Uni Versailles in Frane

France

<dom> Ben's intro

DB, sociology, ... working with w3c standards

Jeffs: RIT ... centre for handheld web, ... w3c ac rep, ... also on mobile web group
... here to do research on the networks expressed in this data, and the issues around privacy

<dom> Maciej's intro

MicieJanik ... [missed that, desktop problem here, sorry]

(MaciejJanik, could you type your comment here please? sorry i missed it)

<dom> Renato's introduction

Renato: from NICTA, Australia
... interest in interop amongst social networks and chair policy languages xg

<PhilA> Renato's intro http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0008.html

Peter Ferne (petef): (postponed)

<dom> Peter Ferne's intro

<tinkster> melvin c

<tinkster> I don't think he's on the call?

Melvster: (not on call)

<melvster> sorry, im not on the call, just lurking, is that ok?

davide sent regrets, in a conflicting telecon

<petef> petef is on irc but mysteriously muted

<petef> and on the call

Caribou is Carine from W3C; she sends regrets

<MaciejJanik> danbri - my intro: I'm from IsWeb group, University of Koblenz, Germany. Interested in trust and privacy issues in social web. Working on WeKnowIt project.

Harry Halpin:

scribe: uni edinburgh
... w3c fellow

<dom> Harry's intro

scribe: working on social web, rdf, info retrieval technologies

Dom: ... cochaired the barcelona workshop, work on w3c's mobile web initiative

alex korth

scribe: berlin germany

<dom> Alex Korth's intro

privacy issues, social media

TPA: Tim A....

<dom> Tim Anglade's intro

<karl> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ http://twitter.com/karlpro

TPA: representing AF83

<dom> Karl's intro

Karl Dubost: social network guinea pig ... ... giving ppl choice about their data

<tinkster> Toby Inkster - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0010.html

Toby Inkster ...

scribe: see intro url
... involved in microformats, foaf+ssl, libre.fm

Adam B: with Boeing, lead architect, product manager for an inhouse social tool

interested in interop between this and external systems, customers/suppliers etc

security issues etc

<dom> DanBri's intro

me: foaf etc

Alex Passant, ...

<dom> Alexandre Passant's intro

<mischat_> alex is in the SPARQL WG

jsalvachua: ...

mattl:

<tinkster> mattl is Matt Lee, libre.fm

<dom> Matt Lee's intro

<tinkster> Don't think he's on the call.

wonsuk:

<dom> Wonsuk's intro

<jsalvachua> i think i didnt unmuted me: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0034.html

<dom> Howard's intro

Hao Wang:

from China, ...

<mischat_> i have yet to introduce

Mischat: Mischa Tuffield ...

currently working with Garlik

<yuk> i joined late, haven't introduce myself yet

interested in distrib social network, privacy

<dom> Mischa's intro

an online identity protection project

prev at southampton, ... interest in lifeblogging

<mischat_> touche

<mischat_> http://mmt.me.uk/

<dom> Hans' intro

<mischat_> http://www.memoriesforlife.org/

<bblfish> Henry Story, work for Sun Microsystems as Social Web Architect. Co-authored this paper for spot2009 "FOAF+SSL: RESTful Authentication for the Social Web" http://bblfish.net/tmp/2009/05/spot2009_submission_15.pdf

<bblfish> I am just cycling from France to Germany (anyone know how to get good european mobile data prices?). Got a connection in a McDonald's sorry for silly music playing in background. Blog: http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish

Henry Story, representing Sun

foaf+ssl

Ted (macted) from openlink

scribe: open connectivity, access to information
... open protocols and formats, while preserving security in an organic sense
... integral to the foaf+ssl discussions, also oauth

? from sony erricson

<MacTed> FOAF and then some - http://myopenlink.net/dataspace/person/tthibodeau

scribe: mainly interested in mobile aspects, esp trust aspects

<hajons> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0014.html

DKA: this is quite a diverse group
telecoms, web, semweb, indusrty , startups, academia, ...
... app developers, ... others

<AlexPassant> Alexandre Passant from DERI Galway (http://deri.ie) interested in Social Web and Semantic Web interactions (semantic blogging, semantic wikis, etc). Co-author of the SIOC ontology, MOAT project, worked on various applications such as foafmap. blogging at http://apassant.net

DKA: challenge is to identify areas where we can make a difference
... leverage, synergy etc :)

<AlexPassant> within the WG, I'm interested in portability of social data and mappings between different formats that aim to achieve this goal - as well as privcay

Charter review and deliverables

scribe: we need to review the initial deliverables we have in the charter, expectations etc

<yuk> hello i didn't introduce myself yet, if still possible

scribe: we created a 2h slot but generally that's probably too much

figure out if we want weekly vs biweekly ...

Harry wanted to talk about invited guests, ...

<dom> Social Web Incubator Group's charter

<DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter

re deliverables, ... http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter#deliverables

<hhalpin> DanBri, go over charter?

<PhilA> scribe: PhilA

DanBRi: Can I bounce this to Harry?

DB: In some of the early drafts of the charter, there were a lot of deliverables and I argued for tem to be reduced in number

<dom> Proposed deliverables for the group

<dom> "A use-case and requirement document that describes a number of real-world use cases and determines if solutions can be built on top of existing standards, including standards outside the W3C, and help determine what other standards may be needed. Use-cases will guide the requirements needed for future work."

<dom> and

<tinkster> Better to deliver more than we promise than vice versa,

DB: If there is the capacity to produce those (dropped) delievrables, then let's do it

<dom> "A document that describes how diverse, ongoing work in this area (outside and within the W3C) currently relates to the Social Web's future. This description of existing, active and past work, both on an industry level and a technical level, will seek to explain how the W3C and community at large may leverage the best of breed and highlight possible weaknesses where further work or new work would be beneficial to the Social Web."

DKA: I think it's important that everything that happens is because people want it to happen
... There is a low engagement from W3C itself
... Members of the WG do the work, noone else...
... We need editors

DKA: Echoing DanBri's statement - more output may affect the quality of the output

DKA: You're more influential if you're an editor

<inserted> ScribeNick: danbri

Harry: given finite time ...
... we need to produce high quality deliverables, that give w3c an idea of a clear role for its work in this area

<dom> ScribeNick: danbri

Harry: so lets look at scheduling strategy
... productive telecons with 33 people are difficult!
... once we know the participation, we can look at task forces aroudn topics or deliverables

<rreck> task forces strike me as a good idea for focusing on deliverables

<DKA> +1 use cases

looking at what we have listed for delivs, fairly std set ... a use case and requirements doc ...

<FabGandon> +1 Use case

<PhilA> +1 use case

<tinkster> +1 use case

<rreck> +1 usecase

+1 use case

<jeffs> +1 use-case

<karl> +1 use case

<cperey> +1 use case

<mischat_> +1 use case

<oshani> +1 use case

<MacTed> +1 use case

<miquel> +1 use case

<wonsuk> +1

<Jed> +1 use case

<pchampin> +1 use case

<yuk> +1 use case

<rreck> +1 use case

<AlexKorth> +1 use case

<AlexPassant> +1

2nd doc, more technical document, ... perhaps broader doc, than the main final report ...."details document", ...

<jsalvachua> +1 use case

<AdamB> +1 use case

<cperey> +1 details document

scribe: lowerlevel document and a higherlevel document

<dom> [I'm interested in "user stories" more than "use cases" :) ]

<jeffs> +1 use-case editor

<karl> +1 use case editor

<PhilA> +1 use case editor

<FabGandon> +1 use case editor

<DKA> woo hoo!

<jsalvachua> +1 details document editor

<Linas> +1 use case

Now for 2nd doc (technical doc) ... how many ppl in being editors?

<cperey> +1 different docs

(possibly broken into diff docs)

<tinkster> +1 details document editor (but only if it's split up)

<karl> +1 technical document editor (but not two at the same time)

<PhilA> I'm up for editing any doc for which I am competent!

DKA: do you expect to see use cases translated into technical arch?

<PhilA> (which is a small subset of the possibles of course)

DKA: come up with a strawman arch for the social web?

<petef> +1 technical document

DKA: could include some of the enumeration of the different bits of work already going on in the community?

<AdamB> +1 technical document

<MaciejJanik> +1 technical document

DKA: including work on a kind of strawman architecture?

harry: yes, ... you'd want to have strawman architectures but aslo as danbri points out existing architectures...
... look realistically at the industry forces

<wonsuk> +1 technical document

harry: eg. maybe facebook don't want to participate, ... that's an issue but in the tech doc we can discuss their broad approach

<rreck> looking at existing architectures keeps it real and grounds things in reality imho

harry: and how the different stacks/architectures/approaches inter-relate
... ie. some detail beyond that needed for w3c management report

DKA: it should be stated on this 1st call that our remit is not to develop new tech but to look at what's out there
... not in business in this wg of making new tech
... referencing etc

<bblfish> +1 use case

<rreck> its always easier to create a poor tool (technology) than learn a good one?

<FabGandon> +1 technical document

dka: 2nd thing re deliverables ,...

harry: final report is a bit difficult, it isn't a details report ...

harry: final report is what w3c should do (eg. recommend new groups)

<jsalvachua> should be a state of the art for actual solutions/ architectures

harry: can invite externals in to speak
... see what their needs, goals etc are
... final report will be shorter, focussed on future role of w3c

<jeffs> charge is to "propose a way forward", not yet to build

harry: may have more deliverables beyond that, but this is the core

<cperey> +1 final report editor

can you write +1 "final report editor" in irc if you want to help with that

<tpa> +1 final report editor

danbri: +1 final report ed

<tinkster> +1 final report editor

<Zakim> danbri, you wanted to qualify that

<Jed> +1 final report editor

<FabGandon> +1 final report editor

DanBri: Although the group don't do tech development there's nothing to stop members forming ad hoc groups to go off and do something with real code and real tools

... the FOAF+SSL is a good examppe of this

... it doesn't necessarily need standardising but it's good stuff

dka: re foaf+ssl, it isn't so much new technology, but interesting recombination

DKA: The FOAF+SSL is not really new tech, it's a combination of existing technologies so it's a grey area

dka: or at least a grey area

DKA: and we can be identifying gaps

<cperey> +1 identifying gaps

DKA: putting a stricture on yourself is a way to understand what the gaps are

<Linas> +1 technical document

<bblfish> yes, I should put a list of gaps for foaf+ssl

<Zakim> danbri, you wanted to show the notes feature

DKA: next charter section ... list of dependencies

<hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to ask for Trackbot [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action01]

DKA: any additional dependencies?

<renato> RI can do PLING

<karl> I'm on html5 wg

<karl> danbri, we could also make queries on the group database

<AlexPassant> I can do SPARQL; and SIOC (while Uldis Bojars and John Breslin are also in the XG )

<scribe> ACTION: danbri suggest some names/contacts for other group liaisons [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action02]

<karl> maybe dom, or someone from the systeam, could extract the cross participation

<mischat_> steve harris may come to future meetings to bridge swxg and sparql wg

re invited ghuests:

harry: 2 diff things to do on a telecon
... 1 is make and write deliverables
... can do that in smaller groups, eg tf-based

(mail or phone, ... whatever)

<cperey> can we go back to the task force documents?

scribe: but we can take that tf discussion offline
... we can maintain weekly meetings
... but every bi-weekly we devote it to one of the groups listed in the dependencies
... so that everyone can dial in and listen to how someone things their tech helps the social web, and how relates to w3c

<petef> apologies to the meeting but I have to duck out now, will catch up on the list

scribe: eg also things it might need help with, or not be good for

<jeffs> +1 to alternate mtgs being devoted to hearing this, but maybe just for one cycle to begin with?

<rreck> +1

<AlexKorth> dedicating telecons to particular ongoing activities within the social web is a great idea!

<renato> renato redialing (droped out)

harry: clear procuess for moving input from externals into docs

<rreck> i think sounds like a great idea

harry: alternate weeks can be insider stuff, writing docs, task forces etc

<hhalpin> +1 agrees with DanBri

dka: good idea
... but q of how long the calls should be
... strawman fwd of 1h calls

<dom> [I think 2 hours is too long; 1h per week sounds good]

<jeffs> nothing gets done after an hour of a mtg

dka: 1h call has to start on time

<rreck> +1 one hour calls started on time

a 2h call is a big chunk of the day

<bblfish> it seems that a presentation should not last more than 30min

<miquel> +1 one hour calls started on time

<jsalvachua> +1 one hour

dka: issue with invited speakers, ... getting a pipeline ...

<rreck> +1 30 minutes presentations

<pchampin> +1 one hour

<Jed> +1 hour call

dka: who takes on role of getting them lined up

<AlexKorth> 30 mins presentation + 30 mins discussion

<karl> Technical doc potential editors: jsalvachua, tinkster, karl

<karl> Use Case potential Editor: jeffs, karl, PhilA, FabGandon

<karl> Final report potential editors: cperey, tpa, danbri, tinkster, Jed, FabGandon

harry: keep invite talk to 30 mins q+a, ... rest of time for feedback, discussion etc

<AdamB> what about 30 minutes presentation, 30 minutes q/a with presenter, 30 minutes group action discussion

yep

<rreck> if person can send us stuff to read first it should be possible

harry: this 1st call always going to be a bit tricky, as people get used to the tooling
... use the wiki over next week
... can use wiki to let people update and add themselves

eg. we could start with mobile and contexts

<rreck> can we vote on speakers we think are important?

tpa: re invited speakers, ... missing the point of those ...
... sad to see us spend too much time on those
... when could be doing research, etc

<hhalpin> thought research+other work could be done on alternating weeks...

karl, yes i think so re wiki

<hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Main_Page

<mischat_> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Main_Page

<rreck> my comment is that real work is grounding your efforts in the existing environment

dka: incubator group is what we make of it...
... curious to hear from others re invited speakers mechanism
... i like it as it helps expose us to ideas outside those immediately recommended here
... the real work we commit to, ...

<Zakim> danbri, you wanted to suggest minor tweak: biweekly neednt be outsiders, but good to have substantive technical content periodically (biweekly fine) and to volunteer some pipeline

DanBRi: One reason I like the invited speaker idea is that W3C is often seen as the big slow consortium that lumbers along behind the people who are doing the real work.

... That's not fair or true but things like OAuth, Open Social and so on are improtant

... but poorly connected to the things that W3C does well (accessibility, mobile, i18n)

<rreck> i agree the speaker effort pushes the envelope the right direction

... it would be good to give other projects a way to bring them into contact with what W3C does well

<hhalpin> We could also have the task forces meet weekly.

<hhalpin> If people think that biweekly doesn't give them enough "work time".

<hhalpin> Note that also I was not talking about tutorials.

<rreck> ok, if the information is available in advance let's regularly review it as ciriculum

TPA: Most of those people have places on the Web that people can look up. I'm not sure that it's a good sue of time. We need to focus our effort - looking at other peopkle's work is something anyone can do any time

<rreck> i see your point

<karl> OAuth Project Review

<hhalpin> but also about the role of the W3C and standardization in their work.

<karl> This is an example of an invited speaker who introduced the concepts of OAuth to W3C Staff

<hhalpin> So, for example, tutorials on blogs and video won't talk about accessibility issues in OpenSocial :)

DanBri: This is not tuorial material. We expect everyone to be able to read up before hand. It's 'how does this tech relate to otehr things on the Web'

... e.g. hCalendar had some accessibility issues

<rreck> so maybe the forum of the speaker should be intended to be more interactive than traditional talk at you presentations

<mischat_> given the short time span, and the fact that we are not set out to implement anything, getting other experts involved to give their insight seems like it would be useful...

DanBri: It shouldn't necessarily be a regular event - that sounds like a weekly conference

<DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We will hold weekly hour-long calls. Every other call will be an "invited speaker" call where we will have at least a half-hour invited speaker to talk or discuss an external technology or project (e.g. Microformats). Speakers to be organized via wiki.

<rreck> lets call them discussions

<karl> +1 to Danbri's proposal. It helps to focus on current implementations and then stay connected with some commercial constraints and realities

propose revision, "topical discussion" rather than "invited speaker"; the invited person might be on the group or not ...

<cperey> +q

<cperey> unmute me

scribe: but it will be a guided discussion with a technical theme, and the group expected to do their background reading 1st

<rreck> so the speaker should be expected to present reading in advance

cperey: i'd like to see this invited speaker system used to track or fill-in gaps in our knowledge
... not rehash things that we know well already

<rreck> +1 no re-hashing of well known information

<hhalpin> +1 using topical discussions to attract things we don't know and platform providers

cperey: to attract more platform providers, social networks such as facebook, myspace, ... to tell us what they're doing

dka: yes, and we could also use this mechanism to bring in some of the startups in the social space
... eg mobile social startups who are working on innovative ideas around social web, ...
... who may be disconneted from communities of practice around both trad standards, but also from oauth, microformats etc

<cperey> +q

dka: and could have as much to gain from getting connected here as vice-versa

so a different kind of invited speaker

<rreck> since several of our orientations is toward privacy or information ownership should we slant discussions in that direction?

cperey: we'll go down the lists from the charter, but not clear these are the ones who need to be invited
... eg. we don't *need* presentations on foaf, dataportability, oauth, ....

dka: it isn't to have tutorials presented, ... rather how they fit into the social web ecosystem ...

<rreck> i think we should vote on the topics WE all feel are relevant

<dom> should we ask someone to look into organizing the first topical discussion, and see whether that's worth repeating on a regular basis?

<cperey> challenging discussions are good

<Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to suggest a slight modification to the resolution

phila: a lot of sympathy with what christine says ... not being told about things we need to know about ,...
... but 30 mins sounds quite a long time, ...

quite a long slot in many situations

<DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We will hold weekly hour-long calls. Every other call will be an "invited speaker" call where we will have at least a half-hour invited speaker to talk/q&a or discuss an external technology or project (e.g. Microformats). Speakers to be organized via wiki.

<miquel> 20min including discussion, then?

<tinkster> perhaps timeslot length dependent on degree of relevence and complexity of the thing being discussed?

<cperey> +1 and the presenter should submit links for advanced reading

<DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We will hold weekly hour-long calls.

dom: lets take a decision ... 30 mins isn't so long

<cperey> +1

<mischat_> + 1

<Zakim> karl, you wanted to talk about reviews by professionals

re oauth, an example topic might be: http://oauth.net/advisories/2009-1

<bblfish> 15 min makes sense. Depends on what the subject is. If we want to hear of people, but for them to see what we are doing then, 15min is much better 10 minutes even better, it gives the listener 50 minutes to see what we are doing

karl: review ... would be by professionals
... a way to find out if what we're doing is useful. Help to focus on writing stuff which can be directly usable by current social networks.

Karl, can you scribe that, audio was bit muffled

<tinkster> +1

<tpa> +1

<oshani> +1

<miquel> +1

<mischat_> +1

+1 for weekly 1h

<FabGandon> +1

<cperey> +1

<dom> +1 on weekly hour calls

<MaciejJanik> +1

<yuk> +1

<pchampin> +1

<tinkster> +1

<hhalpin> +1

<PhilA> +1

<MacTed> +1 weekly 1h

<Zakim> danbri, you wanted to note that some of these external consultations could be purely by email or IRC (and that microformats people are very much not inclined to phone calls)

<jsalvachua> +1

<rreck> +!

<bblfish> +1 for one hour meetings.

<rreck> +1

<hajons> +1

<AdamB> +1

<wonsuk> +1 on weekly hour calls

dka: re invited speakers, i support the idea of trying it out, ...

<mischat_> is there any discussion with respect to who the "external groups" should be? Or is the current list final

how about ... ACTION: danbri propose an external speakers process

resolution: agreed 1h weekly concall

<dom> ACTION: Danbri to propose an external speakers process to the mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action03]

hhalpin: we don't have much time on telecons, ... so it is very important that we make the agenda concise, address needs of the group

<hhalpin> "PROPOSAL"

hhalpin: useful if we can do as much as possible on the list
... proposals can be technical, editorial, ...
... or procedural

<dom> [in general, it is indeed a good idea to do as much work as possible on the mailing list, esp. on big groups like this one]

DKA: we also talked about taskforces ... whether to discuss that today
... likely we'll have some TFs ...
... predicated on different groups of people on the group

<hhalpin> Perhaps people could send proposals out to the list?

(yup)

<cperey> we did a lot of thinking on task forces in February

<cperey> can we please review past work on that

<renato> renato has to drop out now...

<karl> [I second dom on working on the mailing list and not offlist through emails. It really helps to engage in shared work.]

cperey: [re taskforces], ... i think that there was a lot of effort put into thinking about natural taskforces ...
... based on those at the workshop
... re-use, or examine, the TFs that were proposed there

<hhalpin> trying to find that link...

<cperey> http://esw.w3.org/topic/UnifiedSocialXG

<Linas> sorry, I have really to leave now, will look at the minutes + mailing-list

dka: in process of whittling down the agenda (charter? -ed) the longer list got dropped ....
... but valuable work

<scribe> ACTION: Christine send summary of the previous XG TF proposals to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action04]

dka: agenda review ...
... we've covered much of it

harry: how to manage agenda for the next meeting?

<tinkster> Can we organise agendas on the Wiki?

harry: also re docs, editing etc., if people want to stay on the call, we can walk through some of the technicalities of the wiki etc

i like idea of an agenda-fodder area of the wiki

<jeffs> +1 to using the wiki to organize the agendas

<tinkster> I've not been able to log in to wiki

<dom> Social Web wiki

<cperey> what about having a session for those NEW TO W3C?

<bblfish> we need a foaf+ssl enabled wiki :-)

re tutorial session, can we do that but not today? it coudl do with some prep i think

<pchampin> +1 foaf+ssl wiki :)

<tinkster> bblfish, I have FOAF+SSL+OpenID working with MediaWiki's OpenID plugin for a while.

<mischat_> who do we email if our w3c login doesn't work on the wiki

<tinkster> s/have/had/ :-(

<hhalpin> PROPOSAL: Agenda planning on wiki

dka: +1 on agenda-priming on the wiki

<cperey> wiki log in

<jeffs> +1

<cperey> let's make sure that everybody can get on the wiki!

<hhalpin> E-mail me if your login doesn't work, and can look into it. Please do provide as much details as possible.

<mischat_> ok

i get, "Login error: Incorrect password entered. Please try again. "

<bblfish> so that would make an very useful use case.

<mischat_> yeah me too

and it upcases danbri to "DanBri" ...

(let's get a few people polished with the tools, ...)

dka: we should be eating our own dogfood

<mischat_> foaf+ssl login to wiki ...

(if you know that crude phrase, "practice what your preach", "use the techniology you're talking about", etc)

<tinkster> Supposedly dog food salesmen used to actually eat their own dogfood to demonstrate how good it was.

dka: ...to create a sense of community, some kind of online social community eg identi.ca, ... twitter-like tools ...

<hhalpin> it would be nice if a blog-post summarized each meeting as well.

strawman proposal: an identi.ca server, or ...

<tinkster> http://identi.ca/group/swxg

i did make an identi.ca group, "socialweb" a while back, http://identi.ca/group/socialweb

dka: also potential for f2f meeting
... there is a planned TPAC (tech plenary and advisory cottee meeting) in california in November

<hhalpin> so you should be able to use your "W3C" account and login.

<PhilA> I believe it wiould be welcome, yes

dom: yes, believe that will happen

<dom> TPAC2009: 2-6 November 2009, Santa Clara Marriott, CA, USA

dka: some of us could use that to meet f2f
... and to engage with bay area / san fran tech scene

<PhilA> Ning and FB are among those that are nearby of course...

<cperey> good plan (for Nov face to face meeting)

dka: do we have f2f before then?

harry: nov is fine

<hhalpin> ideally, we'll have drafts of everything by November.

<AlexKorth> open stack, e.g. plaxo guys mccrea and smarr, could be invited. no, smarr talks to fast

<Zakim> danbri, you wanted to suggest smaller ad hoc meetings could be likely, and useful

<cperey> Q: are there 2 wikis ? http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Main_Page and identi.ca?

<tinkster> identi.ca is not a wiki but a microblog (like twitter)

<PhilA> DanBRi: It's quite likely that various members of this group will meet up during the year through otehr occasions

<PhilA> DKA: People should self-organise their own meet ups

<AdamB> plaxo is located there as well

<dom> also, note that this IRC channel can be used also outside of teleconferences to help sync with others in the group

dka: i suppor the idea that ppl within the group should self-org their own meetups, get togethers etc., .... part of the trend in mobile social networking ... is that people use the tech to more efficiently meet up in person

fwiw I am "danbri" on dopplr.com and happy to be linked to other SWXG people on that service

<karl> cperey, identi.ca is a twitter-like messenger service based on laconi.ca open platform developed by Evan Prodomou and Robin Millette in Montreal, Canada.

<hhalpin> ACTION: HarryH to help debug wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action05]

(noting that my openid setup is broken at moment due to hacked homepage, so i cannot log into dopplr, identi.ca etc :)

<tinkster> 140 chars

harry: this week in html5 is quite useful

<MacTed> URI to summary...

<karl> I volunteer

<karl> for making summaries

<PhilA> Yes, Harry - but it's usually done by the chair ;-)

( i think harary isn't talking about http://lastweekinhtml5.blogspot.com/ )

<tinkster> summary on wiki, post uri to identi.ca

dka: can we post minutes into the wiki?

<dom> seems like an overkill to me

<PhilA> +1 to Dom

<hhalpin> Well, if someone could post a quick summary to the wiki.

<karl> I will create a last weekin social network xg

<rreck> i think the minutes are the minutes

<hhalpin> then we can put the URI out.

<tinkster> +1 to Dom, minutes look quite noisy.

<PhilA> but the minutes are public anyway so it's copying material

harry: often there are breaking news (eg. some facebook/rss thing)
... gather key sources (feeds etc)

<hhalpin> Anyone wnat to volunteer for that?

<AlexKorth> i said that about facebook. i could repost my twitter stuff (@alexkorth) to identi.ca

<hhalpin> We could do reposts to a page on the wiki as well...

<MacTed> mailing list *far* preferred, to me

there's also delicious.com

dka: adjourned!

<hhalpin> OK, it appears wiki has not been setup right.

<hhalpin> Nevermind e-mailing me.

<hhalpin> It appears to have permissions bound not the XG participants, but to W3C members only.

<hhalpin> Or perhaps even Team Members.

<hhalpin> Sorry, we asked for it to be bound to SWXG participants, probably a small switch is off somewhere...