See also: IRC log
<fsasaki> scribe: tbd
<shepazu> trackbot, start telcon
<trackbot> Meeting: Media Annotations Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 16 April 2009
<vrodrgue2> I am vroddon2 in skype
<daniel> felix, can you hear our voices ?
<fsasaki> very hard to hear
<shepazu> XMP also has broad support on deployed devices
<shepazu> like cameras, videocams, etc.
<daniel> canonical processes discussion proposed by Venonique
<daniel> dave is talking about some issues and questions on UC&Req document.
<wbailer> scribe: wbailer
dave: cross site scripting is an
security issue for metadata access
... mention that this is an issue, work on solution with other WGs
... issue: are annotations timed or not?
... applys to different type of metadata: content description, rights, etc.
... metadata global to media item might be sufficient to start, but time-dependent metadata needs to be considered
<daniel> yeah, felix, the whether is very nice
joakim: what is the media object?
is a fragment a media object
... needs to be defined
felix: this is an issue, do we need to solve it? could timed text approach be used for that
dave: time reference should be supported in api
joakim: doesn't media fragments
solve that? uri describes fragment
... bring up question in joined section
<fsasaki> felix: media fragments group mechanism might be helpful here
dave: use case "Access via web
client to metadata in heterogeneous formats"
... to which collection do the queries refer to?
dave: specify what goes along the arrows in the diagram in section3
<scribe> ACTION: felix to clarify arrow + descriptions for the diagram in section 3 of UC & req dcouments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-101 - Clarify arrow + descriptions for the diagram in section 3 of UC & req dcouments [on Felix Sasaki - due 2009-04-23].
florian: uc 5.4 refers accessing the api from a search engine
joakim: check if attributes mentioned in attributes are covered by properties in mapping table
<scribe> ACTION: veroniqueM to update canonical processes use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - veroniqueM
<scribe> ACTION: vmalais to update canonical processes use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-102 - Update canonical processes use cases [on Véronique Malaisé - due 2009-04-23].
<daniel> coffee break
<daniel> and get back to the MXM discussion...
wonsuk presents short overview of mpeg extensible middleware
<daniel> resume the meeting with MXM introduction by Wonsuk
wonsuk believes there is synergy between implementation of generic metadata engine in mxm and mawg
joakim: define basic set of
entities and their mappings to different formats
... in future, further formats could be added
... define basic set of entities
veronique: from which formats to take definition of these entities
joakim: entities are internal to
... few, generic entities should be sufficient
jean-pierre: people will map to other formats - what to map to?
florian: a defined reference is
... group and classify properties
jean-pierre: how are entities
from different formats related
... define metamodel?
ruben: define minimum set of core terms
jean-pierre: went through this
discussion => ebu core
... europeana: reduce to 15 elements, then enriched
veronique: start with core set, xmp also has core set going back to DC + enrichments
ruben: ID3 is good example for basic metadata set
joakim: publish set of general entities, make people think in terms of these entities
dave: we'd all like a metadata
system with clear semantics, widely used
... don't know how to get it
veronique: enforcing a format is not possible, mapping is the only option
florian: mapping always means loss of information
victor: mapping using semantic
technologies can provide richer mapping than other
... if set of entities is published in w3c recommendation people might be encouraged to use it
florian: problem is different
semantics in enrichment of standards
... build simple core ontology, can be extended to build complex annotation
jean-pierre: kind of combination of dc and mpeg-7 reflects interest of people in wg, but not of interest
<fsasaki> +1 to a simple set of properties
... we have even not agreed on which format to use for describing mappings
... most search engines make search based on brute force
veronique: there are swoogle type of search engines
jean-pierre: even if there's an api for mapping different formats- will it be used
joakim: assemble domain knowledge, not filter it
jean-pierre: work would be simple if all formats would be described already in rdf
joakim: thought that 1:1 mapping of properties makes work easier
veronique: adding entities and their relations would mean defining another ontology
joakim: grouping properties like in xmp
florian: define ontology, provide browsing properties without the need to understand owl
veronique: develop ontology for grouping, avoid define another metadata format
dave: no reason to prefer certain
format, define properties and mappings to existing
... not really defining a new ontology
... not saying that tags we are mapping to are equivalent
veronique: do people agree to define basic set of terms?
jean-pierre: set of basic terms or superset?
dave: subset of what you reasonable want and expect to get
<fsasaki> +1 to dave
joakim: isn't that just dublinc core?
veronqiue: is this really all we want?
florian: in an image, one wants to annotate content
ruben: doing better and more precise might be understand as just another ontology
felix: what we're doing is
developing dc for media
... not bad to refer to dc
... mappings to other formats not availble yet
... lots of mappings available for dc elements in mapping table, getting thinner for other elements
... concern that group is doing too much and progressing too slow
... doing something simple for v1 and more complex for v2 might be a useful approach
daniel: make first basic version, gather feedback and improve based on feedback
daniel reminds of wg charter
jean-pierre: in a simple
approach, we define a list of terms (might be some as dc or
... let's see if we agree on list of terms
... define list of entities and mapping, including mapping dc and xmp to that list
joakim: everyone agrees?
jean-pierre: subclasses could be useful
florian: would increase semantic expressiveness
joakim: level of conformance of implementations to be defined
jean-pierre: implementation cannot mean change implementations
joakim: have several levels of conformance?
<daniel> implementation volunteering (in this room): Joakim, Wonsuk, Werner
jean-pierre: api for mapping = conformance
joakim: what about proprietary formats of service providers
jean-pierre: format should not be used as data model
joakim: there are specific
formats in business domains
... use this in generic deployment environment
jean-pierre: boundaries between
delivery channels are disappearing
... don't want to reinvent how to describe broadcast content
dave: if there is a recommendation of comment set, why would broadcasters not use it?
jean-pierre: broadcasters would keep their formats and use mappings
dave: if there's a recommendation for set of properties, they would try to conform (in their formats)
florian: common set of entities is needed for querying across several formats
jean-pierre: content provider would not implement for mapping
veronique: at least not large providers
jean-pierre: we should not reject
any particular type of metadata
... for the time being we have a restricted set of formats for which we have defined mappings
... everyone should be able to map their format
... restrictions may come from the way the api is written
veronique: skos might not be sufficient for describing the mappings
ruben: if the internal format is
hidden to the user, why standardise the mappings?
... api only is visible
jean-pierre: like dc, this would mean publishing list of terms
florian: why should mapping rules be standardised?
ruben: mapping can be useful, but can be informative
jean-pierre: mapping is mechanism
to discover the set of entities
... but mappings need not be normative
... simple list of properties is not incompatible with more complex ontology
felix: simple approach is
... description of relation to other formats is very valuable
... continue review of mappings
veronique: would api be implementation of mappings?
jean-pierre: is there need for an
... if format in which to publish information is defined
felix: api is useful for making mapping testable
joakim: does that require solving data type issue of return values?
felix, dave: not necessary for making testable assertions
veronique: list of terms, when to define?
... column with names of entities will be added to mapping table
... then review and agree on format reviews
veronique: are mappings one way or bidirectional?
dave: one way only
victor: refine mappings, specify
transitivity, conditions under which properties are equivalent,
... precising the relationship further
... priorities in case of several mappings
joakim: refining further would be necessary for supporting setting scenario
dave: setting raises problem of value ranges of different formats
joakim: future version of mapping table with refined semantics
dave: choose terms that can be read from many formats
jean-pierre: there might be terms that are useful but not (yet) widely supported
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/provideers/providers/ Succeeded: s/writter/written/ Found Scribe: tbd Found Scribe: wbailer Inferring ScribeNick: wbailer Scribes: tbd, wbailer Default Present: Doug_Schepers, Felix Present: Doug_Schepers Felix WARNING: Fewer than 3 people found for Present list! Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_(In_Progress) Found Date: 16 Apr 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html People with action items: felix veroniquem vmalais[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]