See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 26 March 2009
<KFord> rrs agent, make minutes
<KFord> zakim microsoft is kford
<KFord> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-agenda.rdf
<KFord> zakim take up item 1
<scribe> Scribe: JR
<KFord> zakim list agenda
KF: I'm still waiting for JB to
make me offical...
... JA is asking me to be more active in running meetings
JS: I have extended the attendance survey
KF: We started on the alt
concensus - overall WAI feedback to HTML5
... What feedback do we have? SHould figure it out today
... Any thoughts
JS: I like what you were saying
Kelly about it being too complicated
... I've been asking people about that
MH: Question...has this doc been sent to HTML5 yet?
KF: My understanding...it has not
been sent yet
... WAI-CG asking for WAI feedback first
JR: KF is correct
KF: So do we think we can stand behind this?
JR: Not perfect but I can stand behind it
MH: bottom line?
JR,JS: Some form of alt is required
JR: But still may not meet HTML5's hope for validity without alt
MH: Bug me: absence of something
is said to be indicator of the image
... I'd like to see role required to resoundingly say image is an image
<jeanne> JR: It was a difficult discussion because some said that whatever we did had to be backwards compatible. If we made "role" required, it would break every image on the Web.
<jeanne> JR: The absence of a value for alt was the crux of the problem, that there wasn't a way to show whether it was missing from being ignored or whether it was a decorative image
KF: My perspective...assuming a
lot of intelligent people...but I'm not comfortable
... IN HTML4 I know what I have to do
... For accessibility
... I would be ok with 1) use alt="meaningful" and 2) use role="presentation" along with alt=""
MH: I'd support that
KF: clarify 2) is a warning
<jeanne> JR: alt is still required, and if alt="" then also use role = "presentation"
<jeanne> JR: alt="" cannot have two means - 1) I want validity and don't care about accessibility OR 2) I care about accessibiliy and this image is decorative.
<jeanne> KF: I have a concern that role="presentation" may be removed from the DOM and lost.
KF: There is concern with
... We could take this up later
<jeanne> KF: We can take that up as part of ARIA last call discussion.
JR: Points out the need for repetitive alt if author wants to use labelled-by
KF: That's my concern...going to aria forces users to have latest and greatest
JA: Process for commenting?
JR: Indiv or group.
JA: Suggestions wanted?
JA: Ofk so could we vote on UA proposals next week
KF: Two actions 1) communicate to
CG - we do not have concensus, we will be looking at
... One alternative could be not concensus form UAAG
... We owe them a mail before wed. that KF will do
<KFord> ACTION: kford communicate current alt opinion to CG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - kford
<scribe> ACTION: JR to Formulate simplified version with alt still required [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-163 - Formulate simplified version with alt still required [on Jan Richards - due 2009-04-02].
<jeanne> ACTION: KF to communicate current alt opinion to CG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-164 - Communicate current alt opinion to CG [on Kelly Ford - due 2009-04-02].
<KFord> ACTION: kford update CG on alt status [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - kford
KF: Other thoughts
MH: Will send thoughts to
... Concerned with less capable device fallback
... How much ARIA support
KF: Firefox, IE8, Safari, not
sure about Opera
... HTML5 itslef...bits and pieces in all browsers
KF: Most of JA's thoughts in post
JA: Henny wanted to know where slides are?
JS: I could send PDF to group then figure out how to post
JA: Thought presentation went
... Tough week for me, but went well - got thoughts across
... Heard some people say "onerous"...but not constructive...
... But maybe we can have another drfat out by end of May
KF: Anyone we should target for recruitment?
JS: I had a lot of followup
... Mentions Microsoft, Mozilla, NVDA, Apple
... Also spoke with someone who was on TEITAC
JA: I got some other contacts
KF: Anything we can do to recruit them would be great.
KF: Let's leave survey to next week
KF: Jim sent some thoughts.
JA: I just thought there were a
bunch of concepts we could use..."primary, secondary
... Couple things to communicate to web security people...they should reference UAAG as well as just WCAG
... Other than that, just some definitional concerns
... One was level of alerts
... e.g., Caution alrets, danger alerts....how to communicate these
KF: Sounds good
JA: I think we can use this to make our GL better and give them some stuff too
KF: THing to note is that we did release a draft...any feedback yet?
JS: Not sure
KF: please evangelize this
draft...blogs...social networking etc.
... UAAG still important...we need to get the word out
... We need to succeed
JS: Agree+much greater interest
than in the past
... No feedback yet
KF: Date moved to April ??
... Prob we'll ask a couple people at next call
JA: I volunteer
KF: I'm willing to look as
<scribe> ACTION: JA to and JA and MH to come up with inital LC comments on ARIA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-165 - And JA and MH to come up with inital LC comments on ARIA [on Jim Allan - due 2009-04-02].
KF: Let's move rest to next week
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: JR Inferring ScribeNick: JR Present: Harper_Simon kford Jim_Allan Jan_Richards Mark_Hakkinen Jeanne_Spellman Regrets: Henny_Swan Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009JanMar/0091.html Found Date: 26 Mar 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-ua-minutes.html People with action items: alt communicate current ja jr kf kford opinion WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]