W3C

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

12 Mar 2009

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Shepazu, ed__, anthony, heycam, ChrisL, Chris
Regrets
Chair
Erik
Scribe
Cameron

Contents


 

 

<trackbot> Date: 12 March 2009

<shepazu> sigh

<scribe> Scribe: Cameron

<scribe> ScribeNick: heycam

SVG in text/html

DS: it is now on the SVG WG to propose specific wording to go in to the HTML 5 spec
... this would be replacement text for the currently commented out text

ED: what's the timeframe?

DS: i said 2 weeks
... rubys said there didn't seem to be too much of a hurry, since conversation is progressing on the mailing lists

ED: i don't know about the list of element case fixups
... probably would be a good idea to require implementations to know about SVG 1.1 and 1.2T elements

DS: that seems to be what hsivonen was suggesting after the telcon
... which is a reasonable compromise

ED: so, not to restrict future elements, but at least requiring those ones to be supported
... how should we write this up?

DS: just as a sequence of "Replace [blah blah] with [foo foo]"
... last time we had multiple proposals that we folded in, and that seemed to cause confusion
... i think we should keep it simple this time

CM: we should come out with an email of the form "Replace [blah blah] with [foo foo]" in the end, but we can draft it on the wiki
... somebody should take the existing text and put in on the wiki

DS: i can do that

<scribe> ACTION: Doug to take the existing commented out SVG in text/html spec text and put it in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2490 - Take the existing commented out SVG in text/html spec text and put it in the wiki [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-03-19].

Transforms module

ED: there were some discussions on the list

<ed__> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0225.html

ED: have dino's comments been dealt with?

AG: dean sent a list of things of things he'd like to see in our spec, we can put those in as notes
... i've put in some, but i'll need to check if they've covered everything that's mentioned
... maybe we should put a chapter at the beginning about the rendering model
... in that section, we'd describe how the rendering happens
... elaborate on the note in the introduction, and explain what happens when you have filters/compositing/clipping interacting with perspective/3d transforms
... e.g. explain what order they occur in (transform then filter, or vice versa)

<anthony> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/transforms/SVGTransforms.html

AG: in the intro so far, the last paragraph has a bit about the rendering model
... that look ok?

CM: looks ok to me

DS: and me. it begins to address the issue.

AG: should i put in this additional Rendering section?

ED: sounds like a good idea
... having a note in there for now would be fine

DS: we should schedule a call with emmons to discuss layeredG

AG: i'm in favour of a property rather than an element

ED: me too

DS: and me. the functionality would be the same though; we should still discuss it with andrew.

AG: i have an action to propose wording

DS: you can start putting in wording about shifting things around in the rendering tree

<anthony> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2482

DS: then andrew can talk with us about implementation experience

AG: should i fold some use cases & requirements in to that document for z-index?

DS: yes, cover the 3d case
... but also say that it could be reused for 2d z-index
... are we planning on making the 3d transforms completely its own spec... what does is it a diff from?
... are the transforms in 1.2T exactly the same as those in 1.1?

AG: the only thing different is the ability to specify an offset

ED: there is the ref() transform thing yes

DS: so i think we should make transforms be the single place to define it

AG: a chapter in core?

DS: we don't want people wondering if it applies to 1.1 or 1.2T separately

ED: we still need some coordination with the CSS WG

DS: we could split into two specs, 2d transforms and 3d transforms
... but i don't see why we'd want to do that

ED: i wonder if 2d transforms could be part of core instead of being a separate spec

<scribe> ACTION: Anthony to note Dean's issues about the rendering model, compat with OpenVG, etc. in the Transforms spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2491 - Note Dean's issues about the rendering model, compat with OpenVG, etc. in the Transforms spec [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-03-19].

RESOLUTION: We will publish Tranforms once ACTION-2491 is complete

Vector effects

ED: any edits been made?
... not since february, it seems
... do we need to discuss these comments?
... we should wait for chris i guess

Compositing

<ed__> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0229.html

ED: there were some comments. have you had a chance to make edits?

AG: not yet
... i think you're right saying that "group image canvas" isn't defined anywhere
... should i just put in what the term means, or what sort of wording?

ED: some sort of definition of what it means
... i suppose it's like the "temporary canvas" (or whatever) from SVG 1.1

AG: put that in the intro, or the rendering model section?

ED: might be good to collect all the definitions at the beginning somewhere

AG: with the percentage background, that's a separate alpha channel, so i'll add a definition for that as well

ED: wasn't sure if that contained colours or just the alpha

AG: i'll put a definition in for that as well
... for comment #2, i think the reason we did the equations that way was they were already that way to begin with
... so i didn't bother updating them to MathML
... for the first draft, is it ok to leave the equations like that? and put in MathML later?

ED: yes. you might want to replace the dots with a proper multiplication sign.
... having links to definitions would be handy, since the equations are spread out over the spec

AG: yep

<scribe> ACTION: Anthony to address Erik's Compositing comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0229.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2492 - Address Erik's Compositing comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0229.html [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-03-19].

<anthony> ISSUE-2095?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2095 -- Algorithm for soft-light blend mode -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2095

<anthony> ACTION-2427?

<trackbot> ACTION-2427 -- Anthony Grasso to use the formulae from ISSUE-2095 to update the Compositing module -- due 2009-02-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2427

AG: those can probably be closed, though i haven't tested them
... the equations from benjamin came from the pdf spec too
... he said he'd post the correct equations from the iso spec

DS: if we don't have them in our spec, then they're not royalty free
... we can't make a normative reference

ED: we could publish the original equations with notes to say that they might not be compatible with ISO/PDF

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Anthony to address Erik's Compositing comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0229.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Anthony to note Dean's issues about the rendering model, compat with OpenVG, etc. in the Transforms spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Doug to take the existing commented out SVG in text/html spec text and put it in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2009/03/12 21:22:24 $

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

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Found Scribe: Cameron
Found ScribeNick: heycam
Default Present: Shepazu, ed__, anthony, heycam, ChrisL, Chris
Present: Shepazu ed__ anthony heycam ChrisL Chris
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0230.html
Found Date: 12 Mar 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: anthony doug

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