IRC log of svg on 2009-03-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:30:22 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
19:30:22 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-irc
19:30:23 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:30:25 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:30:26 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start 60 minutes ago
19:30:26 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:30:27 [trackbot]
Date: 12 March 2009
19:30:29 [shepazu]
zakim, pick a victim
19:30:29 [Zakim]
sorry, shepazu, I don't know what conference this is
19:30:36 [shepazu]
zakim, this is SVG
19:30:36 [Zakim]
shepazu, I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be SVG".
19:30:49 [shepazu]
Zakim, this will be SVG
19:30:49 [Zakim]
ok, shepazu; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start 60 minutes ago
19:31:03 [shepazu]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:31:03 [Zakim]
sorry, shepazu, I don't know what conference this is
19:31:11 [shepazu]
sigh
19:31:20 [shepazu]
zakim, call shepazu
19:31:20 [Zakim]
ok, shepazu; the call is being made
19:31:22 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has now started
19:31:22 [Zakim]
+Shepazu
19:31:42 [shepazu]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:31:42 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:31:53 [shepazu]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:31:53 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:31:55 [shepazu]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:31:55 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:31:57 [shepazu]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:31:57 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:32:26 [Zakim]
+??P5
19:32:36 [Zakim]
+??P6
19:32:42 [ed__]
Zakim, ??P5 is me
19:32:42 [Zakim]
+ed__; got it
19:32:45 [anthony]
Zakim, ??P6 is me
19:32:45 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
19:32:47 [shepazu]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:32:47 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:32:52 [shepazu]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:32:52 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose anthony
19:33:35 [shepazu]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:33:35 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose anthony
19:34:39 [ed__]
Zakim, who's here?
19:34:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shepazu, ed__, anthony
19:34:40 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, ed__, heycam, shepazu, jwatt, anthony, trackbot, ed_work
19:35:19 [Zakim]
+??P7
19:35:24 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P7 is me
19:35:24 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
19:46:16 [ed__]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:46:16 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:46:57 [heycam]
Chair: Erik
19:47:00 [heycam]
Scribe: Cameron
19:47:03 [ChrisL]
ChrisL has joined #svg
19:47:04 [heycam]
ScribeNick: heycam
19:47:06 [ed__]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0230.html
19:47:45 [heycam]
Topic: SVG in text/html
19:47:59 [Zakim]
+ChrisL
19:48:22 [heycam]
DS: it is now on the SVG WG to propose specific wording to go in to the HTML 5 spec
19:48:47 [heycam]
... this would be replacement text for the currently commented out text
19:50:12 [heycam]
ED: what's the timeframe?
19:50:14 [heycam]
DS: i said 2 weeks
19:50:46 [heycam]
... rubys said there didn't seem to be too much of a hurry, since conversation is progressing on the mailing lists
19:51:11 [heycam]
ED: i don't know about the list of element case fixups
19:51:28 [heycam]
... probably would be a good idea to require implementations to know about SVG 1.1 and 1.2T elements
19:51:38 [heycam]
DS: that seems to be what hsivonen was suggesting after the telcon
19:51:44 [heycam]
... which is a reasonable compromise
19:52:02 [heycam]
ED: so, not to restrict future elements, but at least requiring those ones to be supported
19:52:32 [heycam]
... how should we write this up?
19:53:54 [heycam]
DS: just as a sequence of "Replace [blah blah] with [foo foo]"
19:54:20 [heycam]
... last time we had multiple proposals that we folded in, and that seemed to cause confusion
19:54:36 [heycam]
... i think we should keep it simple this time
19:55:17 [heycam]
CM: we should come out with an email of the form "Replace [blah blah] with [foo foo]" in the end, but we can draft it on the wiki
19:55:49 [heycam]
CM: somebody should take the existing text and put in on the wiki
19:55:58 [heycam]
DS: i can do that
19:56:19 [heycam]
ACTION: Doug to take the existing commented out SVG in text/html spec text and put it in the wiki
19:56:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2490 - Take the existing commented out SVG in text/html spec text and put it in the wiki [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-03-19].
19:59:36 [heycam]
Topic: Transforms module
19:59:54 [heycam]
ED: there were some discussions on the list
19:59:57 [ed__]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0225.html
20:00:00 [heycam]
... have dino's comments been dealt with?
20:00:36 [heycam]
AG: dean sent a list of things of things he'd like to see in our spec, we can put those in as notes
20:00:58 [heycam]
... i've put in some, but i'll need to check if they've covered everything that's mentioned
20:01:56 [heycam]
... maybe we should put a chapter at the beginning about the rendering model
20:02:10 [heycam]
... in that section, we'd describe how the rendering happens
20:02:35 [heycam]
... elaborate on the note in the introduction, and explain what happens when you have filters/compositing/clipping interacting with perspective/3d transforms
20:02:53 [heycam]
... e.g. explain what order they occur in (transform then filter, or vice versa)
20:02:55 [anthony]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/transforms/SVGTransforms.html
20:03:08 [heycam]
... in the intro so far, the last paragraph has a bit about the rendering model
20:04:20 [heycam]
... that look ok?
20:04:22 [heycam]
CM: looks ok to me
20:04:27 [heycam]
DS: and me. it begins to address the issue.
20:04:45 [ChrisL]
zakim, mute me
20:04:45 [Zakim]
ChrisL should now be muted
20:04:49 [heycam]
AG: should i put in this additional Rendering section?
20:04:52 [heycam]
ED: sounds like a good idea
20:05:09 [heycam]
... having a note in there for now would be fine
20:06:34 [heycam]
DS: we should schedule a call with emmons to discuss layeredG
20:07:28 [heycam]
AG: i'm in favour of a property rather than an element
20:07:33 [heycam]
ED: me too
20:07:46 [heycam]
DS: and me. the functionality would be the same though; we should still discuss it with andrew.
20:08:12 [heycam]
AG: i have an action to propose wording
20:08:29 [heycam]
DS: you can start putting in wording about shifting things around in the rendering tree
20:08:37 [anthony]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2482
20:08:39 [heycam]
... then andrew can talk with us about implementation experience
20:09:24 [heycam]
AG: should i fold some use cases & requirements in to that document for z-index?
20:09:48 [heycam]
DS: yes, cover the 3d case
20:10:01 [heycam]
... but also say that it could be reused for 2d z-index
20:11:46 [heycam]
... are we planning on making the 3d transforms completely its own spec... what does is it a diff from?
20:11:57 [heycam]
... are the transforms in 1.2T exactly the same as those in 1.1?
20:12:22 [heycam]
AG: the only thing different is the ability to specify an offset
20:12:26 [heycam]
ED: there is the ref() transform thing yes
20:12:50 [heycam]
DS: so i think we should make transforms be the single place to define it
20:13:06 [heycam]
AG: a chapter in core?
20:13:38 [heycam]
DS: we don't want people wondering if it applies to 1.1 or 1.2T separately
20:14:24 [heycam]
ED: we still need some coordination with the CSS WG
20:14:56 [heycam]
DS: we could split into two specs, 2d transforms and 3d transforms
20:15:10 [heycam]
... but i don't see why we'd want to do that
20:17:40 [heycam]
ED: i wonder if 2d transforms could be part of core instead of being a separate spec
20:21:27 [heycam]
ACTION: Anthony to note Dean's issues about the rendering model, compat with OpenVG, etc. in the Transforms spec
20:21:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2491 - Note Dean's issues about the rendering model, compat with OpenVG, etc. in the Transforms spec [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-03-19].
20:22:10 [heycam]
RESOLUTION: We will publish Tranforms once ACTION-2491 is complete
20:23:38 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
20:28:27 [heycam]
Topic: Vector effects
20:28:39 [Zakim]
+Chris
20:29:34 [Zakim]
-Chris
20:30:10 [heycam]
ED: any edits been made?
20:30:14 [heycam]
ED: not since february, it seems
20:30:23 [heycam]
... do we need to discuss these comments?
20:30:29 [heycam]
... we should wait for chris i guess
20:31:16 [heycam]
Topic: Compositing
20:31:33 [ed__]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0229.html
20:31:57 [heycam]
ED: there were some comments. have you had a chance to make edits?
20:31:59 [heycam]
AG: nto yet
20:32:01 [heycam]
s/nto/not/
20:32:15 [heycam]
... i think you're right saying that "group image canvas" isn't defined anywhere
20:32:27 [heycam]
... should i just put in what the term means, or what sort of wording?
20:32:36 [heycam]
ED: some sort of definition of what it means
20:32:55 [heycam]
... i suppose it's like the "temporary canvas" (or whatever) from SVG 1.1
20:33:06 [heycam]
AG: put that in the intro, or the rendering model section?
20:33:18 [heycam]
ED: might be good to collect all the definitions at the beginning somewhere
20:33:31 [heycam]
AG: with the percentage background, that's a separate alpha channel, so i'll add a definition for that as well
20:33:41 [heycam]
ED: wasn't sure if that contained colours or just the alpha
20:33:52 [heycam]
AG: i'll put a definition in for that as well
20:34:13 [heycam]
... for comment #2, i think the reason we did the equations that way was they were already that way to begin with
20:34:19 [heycam]
... so i didn't bother updating them to MathML
20:34:34 [heycam]
... for the first draft, is it ok to leave the equations like that? and put in MathML later?
20:34:49 [heycam]
ED: yes. you might want to replace the dots with a proper multiplication sign.
20:36:45 [heycam]
... having links to definitions would be handy, since the equations are spread out over the spec
20:36:54 [heycam]
AG: yep
20:40:00 [heycam]
ACTION: Anthony to address Erik's Compositing comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0229.html
20:40:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2492 - Address Erik's Compositing comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0229.html [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-03-19].
20:40:26 [anthony]
ISSUE-2095?
20:40:26 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2095 -- Algorithm for soft-light blend mode -- RAISED
20:40:26 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2095
20:40:37 [anthony]
ACTION-2427?
20:40:37 [trackbot]
ACTION-2427 -- Anthony Grasso to use the formulae from ISSUE-2095 to update the Compositing module -- due 2009-02-05 -- OPEN
20:40:37 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2427
20:41:05 [heycam]
AG: those can probably be closed, though i haven't tested them
20:41:29 [heycam]
... the equations from benjamin came from the pdf spec too
20:42:01 [heycam]
... he said he'd post the correct equations from the iso spec
20:42:42 [heycam]
DS: if we don't have them in our spec, then they're not royalty free
20:42:54 [heycam]
... we can't make a normative reference
20:48:51 [heycam]
ED: we could publish the original equations with notes to say that they might not be compatible with ISO/PDF
21:02:47 [Zakim]
-heycam
21:03:19 [Zakim]
-ed__
21:15:33 [Zakim]
-anthony
21:15:44 [Zakim]
-Shepazu
21:15:45 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has ended
21:15:47 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shepazu, ed__, anthony, heycam, ChrisL, Chris
21:22:18 [heycam]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:22:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-minutes.html heycam
21:23:29 [heycam]
RRSAgent, bye
21:23:29 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-actions.rdf :
21:23:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Doug to take the existing commented out SVG in text/html spec text and put it in the wiki [1]
21:23:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-irc#T19-56-19
21:23:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Anthony to note Dean's issues about the rendering model, compat with OpenVG, etc. in the Transforms spec [2]
21:23:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-irc#T20-21-27
21:23:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Anthony to address Erik's Compositing comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0229.html [3]
21:23:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-irc#T20-40-00
21:23:31 [heycam]
Zakim, bye
21:23:31 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #svg