W3C

- DRAFT -

HTML Weekly Teleconference

12 Mar 2009

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Mike
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
MikeSmith

Contents


 

 

<trackbot> Date: 12 March 2009

<pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2009-03-12 from Sam Ruby on 2009-03-11 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from January to March 2009) (at lists.w3.org)

<rubys> anybody want to scribe?

<scribe> scribe: MikeSmith

<scribe> scribenick: MikeSmith

<pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 12 Mar 2009 (at www.w3.org)

issue-59?

<trackbot> ISSUE-59 -- Should the HTML WG produce a separate document that is a normative language reference and if so what are the requirements -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/59

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-59 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-59 (normative-language-reference)

<DanC> action-94: SVG Feedback on HTML5 SVG Proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Mar/0216.html

<trackbot> ACTION-94 Report back on SVG WG's integration proposal re: issue-37 notes added

<pimpbot> Title: SVG Feedback on HTML5 SVG Proposal from Doug Schepers on 2009-03-10 (public-html@w3.org from March 2009) (at lists.w3.org)

<Lachy> I'm here, IRC only for now. Unless I'm needed, I won't call in

<masinter> I'm willing to help but would appreciate some guidance about what things Mike wants reviewed or needs help with

Issue 59 (normative language reference)

<dsinger> we did have a conversation about the normative status; could that be a sub-question, like the requirements are?

<dsinger> i.e. Should the HTML WG produce a separate document that is a language reference and if so, should it be normative, and what are the requirements?

<smedero> I'm also intending to help. I sent Mike some rough review notes last week.

<DanC> yes, we did, dsinger; I think the document now says "dunno what status this will eventually have"

<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note a little progress and to invite smedero

<smedero> and Mike just answered my question about needing help w/ examples.

DanC: smedero, maybe you could send a version of your message that you mailed directly to Mike & me?

smedero: yeah, can do that

<dsinger> I also note that Hixie is 'about 40% done' on producing some of the supporting technical details automatically from the spec.

<DanC> ACTION-109?

<trackbot> ACTION-109 -- Sam Ruby to pursue publication of HTML 5: The Markup Language... poll or whatever -- due 2009-03-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/109

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-109 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

masinter: before doing a poll, would like to have a version that I can pass around internally

<scribe> ACTION: Michael(tm) to coordinate review of current H:TML draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-116 - Coordinate editing work of current H:TML draft [on Michael(tm) Smith - due 2009-03-19].

<DanC> action-109?

<trackbot> ACTION-109 -- Michael(tm) Smith to hand out work to reviewers of HTML 5: The Markup Language... -- due 2009-03-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/109

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-109 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<DanC> action-109 due next week

<trackbot> ACTION-109 hand out work to reviewers of HTML 5: The Markup Language... due date now next week

issue-37?

<trackbot> ISSUE-37 -- Integration of SVG and MathML into text/html -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/37

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-37 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-37 -- Integration of SVG and MathML into text/html

<DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Mar/0216.html

<pimpbot> Title: SVG Feedback on HTML5 SVG Proposal from Doug Schepers on 2009-03-10 (public-html@w3.org from March 2009) (at lists.w3.org)

Issue 37 ( Integration of SVG and MathML into text/html)

<DanC> (ACTION-94 is done to my satisfaction)

[shepazu does recap]

<masinter> (wasn't clear on what it is authors want or don't want)

<DanC> (non-XML syntax for SVG, I think, masinter )

shepazu: SVG WG have come from a position that favored XML-only syntax to recognizing that browser vendors favor something with features of text/html
... I'm not convinced that authors want that kind of syntax
... we are against HTML5 "whitelisting" particular elements ...
... would prefer that the HTML5 reference the SVG spec instead of whitelisting
... anyway, I think the issues are being hashed out on the mailing list

<Lachy> from a web developer's perspective, I want syntactic consistency between HTML and SVG when they are mixed in text/html, rather than XML strictness for SVG

[masinter discusses deployed tools that consume or produce SVG]

shepazu: my concern is that we end up getting some hybrid syntax that Illustrator can't consume any more

<anne> Illustrator can be updated just like browsers, no?

<anne> easy to use HTML5 parsers are readily available

shepazu: we are concerned about loss of all the network effects that SVG enjoys [if browers end up only supporting some subset of SVG]

<anne> (it would also be interesting to know whether Illustrator can consume XHTML+SVG at present)

masinter: that should not be called SVG [if that ends up happening]

shepazu: 2 steps: 1, error reporting; and 2, we like the export-SVG-by-right-clicking idea
... I agree with hsivonen, who said the issue is that changing parsers consumes significant resources ...
... [not changing parsers] results in faster performance [which is preferable]
... point is not to punish the end user for mistakes in source
... but I don't think there are hordes of authors our there producing SVG by hand from text editors

<rubys> I do :-)

<gsnedders> You're weird!

<anne> I do too, usually

shepazu: they are instead producing SVG using programming languages, and tools like Inkscape

<rubys> can we start to wrap up the error recover aspects of this discussion?

shepazu: SVG does not define its own processing and parsing model
... but for example, there are special considerations, like the fact that svg elements must be closed

DanC: there's a pattern where structured-markup languages, when they hit the prime time, turn fuzzy

<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to noodle on the pattern of XML languages getting fuzzy, not just HTML but also RSS, and to note risks of "I don't care how they implement it"

<masinter> was just trying to understand the position

shepazu: in the beginning, SVG tools did not require a namespace declaration, and still some tools in current use don't require it

<masinter> to clarify my comments here: I understand the different possible positions, was trying to understand which one the SVG group was taking

Julian: seems to be some agreement here, should take it back to mailing list

<masinter> sorry for not noticing q :(

<DanC> ("our wiki page" = http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG_in_text-html_2009 ? )

<pimpbot> Title: SVG in text-html 2009 - SVG (at www.w3.org)

shepazu: there are issues about this that the implementors in teh SVG WG don't yet agree on themselves

(oink oink)

<DanC> close ACTION-94

<trackbot> ACTION-94 Report back on SVG WG's integration proposal re: issue-37 closed

shepazu: I would like to ask that teh SVG WG's comments be reified in the spec
... Hixie expressed a bit of sense of urgency on this, because implementors are implementing already the commented-out SVG part of the HTML5 draft

<rubys> action doug to get svg working group to propose specific text

<trackbot> Created ACTION-117 - Get svg working group to propose specific text [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-03-19].

<shepazu> ACTION-117

<shepazu> ACTION-117?

<trackbot> ACTION-117 -- Doug Schepers to get svg working group to propose specific text -- due 2009-03-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/117

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-117 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<DanC> (I'd like to see a test case for the whitelisting issue.)

<shepazu> DanC: yes, that' s the correct link

<masinter> ask that a new editor's draft be generated which has 'commented out' sections noted rather than redacted, so that "Editors Draft" in W3C matches what implementors are looking at

ISSUE-54 (doctype-legacy-compat)

Lachy: we looking at your action now

<DanC> action-103?

<trackbot> ACTION-103 -- Lachlan Hunt to track registration of about: URI scheme -- due 2009-03-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/103

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-103 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

action-34?

<trackbot> ACTION-34 -- Lachlan Hunt to prepare "Web Developer's Guide to HTML5" for publication in some way, as discussed on 2007-11-28 phone conference -- due 2009-02-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/34

<Lachy> ok

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-34 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<Lachy> see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Mar/0265.html

<pimpbot> Title: Re: {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2009-03-12 from Lachlan Hunt on 2009-03-11 (public-html@w3.org from March 2009) (at lists.w3.org)

<DanC> oops. sorry. I was in the wrong place

action-78?

<trackbot> ACTION-78 -- Lachlan Hunt to work on text and heading for 1.5.4 Relationship to Flash, Silverlight, XUL and similar proprietary languages -- due 2009-03-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/78

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-78 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

[rubys notes that Lachy has provided status updates on the list]

action-54?

<trackbot> ACTION-54 -- Chris Wilson to ask PF WG to look at drafted text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements -- due 2008-09-26 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-54 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<Lachy> ok, if you're done with my issues now, I'm leaving. Bye.

<DanC> ACTION-110?

<trackbot> ACTION-110 -- Michael(tm) Smith to add note to H:TML draft about what's currently missing and planned to be added -- due 2009-03-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/110

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-110 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<DanC> action-110 due next week

<trackbot> ACTION-110 Add note to H:TML draft about what's currently missing and planned to be added due date now next week

<dsinger> URI for the wiki page?

<DanC> http://esw.w3.org/topic/IETF_HTML5_Meeting_March_2009

rubys: I intend to be at the informal HTML meeting at IETF

<pimpbot> Title: IETF HTML5 Meeting March 2009 - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

<DanC> (I just added "HTML 5 and scripting media types" to the agenda)

<masinter> no IETF registration (please wiki register) required

<DanC> wiki registration appreciated

<masinter> no IETF registration required

<pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 12 Mar 2009 (at www.w3.org)

[adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Michael(tm) to coordinate review of current H:TML draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.133 (CVS log)
$Date: 2009/03/12 16:51:28 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Issue 50/Issue 59/
Succeeded: s/review/editing work/
Succeeded: s/no registration/no IETF registration (please wiki register)/
Found Scribe: MikeSmith
Inferring ScribeNick: MikeSmith
Found ScribeNick: MikeSmith
Default Present: Mike
Present: Mike

WARNING: Fewer than 3 people found for Present list!

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009JanMar/0041.html

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 12 Mar 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-html-wg-minutes.html
People with action items: michael tm

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