RDFa in XHTML Task Force

<ShaneM> hardware problems - working on it

<ShaneM> go on without me

Action Items

Steven: Everybody get the US Govt using RDFa e-mail?

Manu: Yes.

benadida: Very exciting stuff.

Manu: We should discuss Julian's comments at the end.

benadida: Yes.

ACTION: Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa" with screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Manu to create TC to test @resource="[]" does not set object based on TC 123. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [DONE]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Mar/0056.html

ACTION: Manu to look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Dec/0037.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action15] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Mark to review reasoning on setting explicit about="" on HEAD and BODY [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-rdfa-irc] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Mark to send Ben ubiquity related wizard stuff [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Ralph or Steven fix the .htaccess for the XHTML namespace [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]

Steven: There are two different documents being served up currently
... the ideal solution would be to have one document served up, so that they never get out of sync.

benadida: Think you might be able to do that?

Steven: I'll add it to my list of things to do... see if I can find some time for it.

benadida: Ok

ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15] [CONTINUES]

Test Cases for @prefix

Manu: talking about test cases for @prefix?

Ben: yes

<msporny> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

Manu: test cases 9001-9005
... start with 9001

<msporny> http://rdfa.info/wiki/Design-suite

<msporny> prefix="dcterms: http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"

Manu: using the ":" notation for prefix declaration

<msporny> prefix="xsd: http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#;"

Manu: 9002 uses a more CSS syntax

<msporny> prefix="xsd=http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#"

Manu: 9003 uses a standard "=" syntax

<msporny> We should also have a new test case for - prefix="dcterms http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"

Ben: wasn't there a syntax such as "dc http:// foaf http://"

Manu: yes, I'll add that

Ben: just to clarify, 9001 has a space after the colon in the prefix declaration

Manu: I prefer the = notation, 9003
... issue with space-separation is it's easier to screw up

Tom: just wanted to flag the issue that the old DC namespace is still valid, the old terms have just be subsumed in the new terms
... only the new terms have a range specified, so dcterms:creator should not be a literal.
... It's a legacy issue, dcmi predates RDF, and dcterms is specified to add ranges.
... dcmi couldn't impose a range on existing properties
... just wanted to flag this

Manu: I had read that we should move to dcterms?

Tom: DCMI gently encourages folks to use terms with formal ranges, but it's legacy and used so broadly
... that we're not withdrawing support for the old terms. Just gentle encouragement.

Ben: in 9001, there's a mismatch between prefix declaration and the SPARQL

Manu: how do we fix it the right way?

Tom: it's never wrong to use dc:creator (elements/1.1), we're just encouraging people to use dcterms.

Manu: we'll use dcterms and point to a URL instead of a literal, also update the prefix declaration.
... test case 9002

<msporny> Fixes to 9002 - 1. Move "Tim Armstrong" out of A element.

<msporny> 2. Change "Tim Armstrong" to a URL.

<msporny> 3. Enclose SPARQL xmlschema#date in <>

Manu: 9003 is the same, but with equal sign notation.

<msporny> Make 9001 have the same triples as 9002, 9003

Ben: all test cases look good, given the mentioned modifications.

Manu: I don't have a test case for @prefix in the HEAD defining for the rest of the document.

Wishlist for HTML5+RDFa

benadida: Manu and I have started a wiki on what HTML5 could do with RDFa
... The document should contain what we'd like them to do and what we would not like them to do
... For example, triple stores are not needed for adopting RDFa.
... Outline things that should be up to the browser vendors on implementing.
... The document should clearly deliniate things that should be left to the implementors.

Manu: Sounds good, but Ian might have an issue with "leaving it up to the browser vendors"

benadida: Yes, but we should capture the differences between semantics and implementation of processing those semantics.

Julian's comments

Steven: It's a bit of guesswork on what he's trying to achieve.
... He's complaining about having CURIEs in @rel values because that would disallow URIs, directly.
... Unfortunately, "next" is a valid URI because it is a relative URI.
... Any URI will clash in a @rel value without doing something special with it.
... If he has an issue with CURIEs needing a double translation, then there is another issue with that approach
... You need to do processing on @href just like you have to do processing on @rel
... We shouldn't mess with values that we don't know how to deal with
... If we don't have a prefix mapping, we leave it alone.

benadida: So, anybody can use http:// in @rel as long as RDFa treats it like a @rel it doesn't know.
... if you hit rel="foo" when you're parsing the tree, RDFa does nothing with that extra foo.
... We should make it more clear that he should be able to do "http:"

<ShaneM> all we say is how triples are extracted. we dont say what some other processor might do with the data

<ShaneM> and we do not change the data. so it should be fine

benadida: We should outline how HTML5+RDFa happens with minimal effort to browser vendors.

ACTION: Manu to clean up TC 9001, 9002, 9003. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

ACTION: Manu to create TC for space-separated syntax for @prefix. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]