See also: IRC log
<nick> zqkim, who is here?
<ebruchez> I will be a few minutes late
i'm such a bad scribe
<John_Boyer> scribe: Uli
<John_Boyer> scribenick: unl
Steven: going to the AC
... will be on a panel about XHTML and HTML
... of course XForms is included
... the day will be about a11y
... they are excited about XHTML/XForms
<John_Boyer> Thanks to DAISY consortium
Steven/John/Charlie: declarative approach much better than procedural
<John_Boyer> Accessibility needs provide strong requirements for more declarative constructs so it's easier to tell what's going on and presentit on alternate channel
<Steven> since procedural semantics are fundamentally intractable
<wiecha> accessibility can be layered on procedural languages via an API which winds up being an alternative form of "declarative" abstraction
<wiecha> so we should think about comparing APIs vs. markup
<wiecha> check out the backplane minutes from yesterday for a discussion of points we might raise during the AC meeting
Steven: need Leigh's help on
... XHTML WG will merge XForms and XHTML schemas
... looking for attribute clashes
... e.g. RDFa has @resource
John: @encoding on xf:submission
Steven: next 3 three weeks times
... for europeans
John: some mistakes regarding
... will check
John: a number of failing submission tests are now implemented in ubiquity
<John_Boyer> no mistake on counting; misread "recommended" in submission section
<John_Boyer> submission is recommended, but if you implement, then certain features are *required* so we need two passing tests
<John_Boyer> and only have one for a number of tests
<nick> I've sent in a Chiba report last weekend, and it passes also quite some tests
<scribe> ACTION: john to send newsletter to www-forms [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - john
<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)
John: Nick sent an impl report for Chiba
<nick> mainly Core Form Controls, and data types have much failurs
John: so we get more 2 passing tests per feature
<nick> just give me an action
<scribe> ACTION: nick to put Chiba impl report into CVS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-517 - Put Chiba impl report into CVS [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2009-03-11].
John: we got permission from EMC to publish impl report
Nick: which email?
John: exclude chapter 11 and appendix B
<scribe> ACTION: nick to put EMC impl report into CVS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-518 - Put EMC impl report into CVS [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2009-03-11].
Steven: can we exit CR?
John: once the other impl reports
are in place we need an updated test suite triage
... MarkB sent regrets because he and his team is having a coding marathon on ubiquity
Steven: seems to work better and
better in opera
... will be talking on MozCamp in NL
... will demonstrate ubiquity in mozilla
John: take care to preload all
the js files
... you can pack all js files into one for deployment, loads magnitudes faster
John: already corrected it in my
own spec copy
... @at in 1.0 is evaluated in context of @nodeset
... enables stuff like at="last()"
... in 1.1 it is described correctly in processing rules for insert, but not in overview
<scribe> ACTION: jboyer to fix overview text of at attribute [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-519 - Fix overview text of at attribute [on John Boyer - due 2009-03-11].
<John_Boyer> Would like an action to say "... XPath expression evaluated using the Node Set Binding node-set ..." for at attribute of insert (synch with processing rules and delete)
John: xf:submission has
@separator for url-encoded submissions
... the default is semicolon instead of ampersand
... which seems wrong
<nick> chiba does
Erik: any reason why we just can't change it?
Charlie: no strong opinion
Erik: everybody who's
implementing semicolon as default now has to specify ampersand
so probably nothing would break
... furthermore with ampersand as default we could remove @separator in many forms
Nick: no strong feelings either
<wiecha> i think my code using shindig does use them
Charlie/Uli: semicolon still useful for REST services
Steven: the forms that assume
semicolon as default will break
... we changed it because some specs say that semicolon will be the default in the web in future
John: but ampersand still rules the web...
Steven: considering that noone adopted semicolon its ok
<Steven_> B.2.2 Ampersands in URI attribute values
<Steven_> The URI that is constructed when a form is submitted may be used as an anchor-style link (e.g., the href attribute for the A element). Unfortunately, the use of the "&" character to separate form fields interacts with its use in SGML attribute values to delimit character entity references. For example, to use the URI "http://host/?x=1&y=2" as a linking URI, it must be written <A href="http://host/?x=1&y=2"> or <A href="http://host/?x=1&y=2">.
<Steven_> We recommend that HTTP server implementors, and in particular, CGI implementors support the use of ";" in place of "&" to save authors the trouble of escaping "&" characters in this manner.
RESOLUTION: keep @separator, but change default to ampersand
John: outstanding action items?
Erik: got CVS access, will work on action items
<nick> I did Action 2009-02-25.6 and Action 2009-02-18.3
<nick> need to put your version of 11 2 g.xhtml in the cvs
<nick> but don't have an action item of that
John: what about 1.11.p?
John: its about @standalone on xf:submission
Nick: you have to omit @standalone to have it excluded from submitted data
Nick: @standalone="false" will yield a @standalone="no" in your XML decl
John: fixing the test means it should have a trigger or submission
Nick: that's what i've done
<John_Boyer> a third trigger
<scribe> ACTION: nick to fix test 1.11.p [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-520 - Fix test 11.1.p [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2009-03-11].
<nick> add a third submission so we test the three possibilities
Erik: problem with content type for SOAP messages
Erik: it's a SOAP version issue
Erik: so in 11.11.2 a is no
... but in 11.1.1 a is
... it has a "root" element around the SOAP envelope
<nick> chiba has the extra root element too
John: seems the @ref on
submission is wrong
... would include the "root" element to be sent
<scribe> ACTION: ebruchez to fix test 11.1.1 a (fix @ref and and add @mediatype) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-521 - Fix test 11.1.1 a (fix @ref and and add @mediatype) [on Erik Bruchez - due 2009-03-11].
Erik: exchange @nodeset with @context
<scribe> ACTION: ebruchez to fix test B 14 a (use @context instead of @nodeset) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-522 - Fix test B 14 a (use @context instead of @nodeset) [on Erik Bruchez - due 2009-03-11].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/John::/Steven: going to the AC meeting/ Succeeded: s/lokking/looking/ Succeeded: s/passing tests/passing tests per feature/ Succeeded: s/.../can we exit CR?/ Succeeded: s/hava/have/ Succeeded: s/1.11.p/11.1.p/ Found Scribe: Uli Found ScribeNick: unl Default Present: wiecha, John_Boyer, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Steven, unl, ebruchez, Steven.a Present: wiecha John_Boyer Nick_van_den_Bleeken Steven unl ebruchez Steven.a Regrets: Leigh MarkB Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Mar/0009.html Got date from IRC log name: 04 Mar 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-forms-minutes.html People with action items: ebruchez jboyer john nick[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]