<trackbot> Date: 08 January 2009

<ed> Scribe: shepazu

<ed> Scribenick: shepazu

Agenda for Sydney F2F

ed: several possible topics...
... errata, filters, layout, compositing, modules, next version of the spec...
... what's happening with Print spec?

ChrisL: Print spec is suffering from lack of implementations...
... open source folks are interested in the color profiles

ed: how can we speed up the process?

ChrisL: I've talked to folks from Scribus and Inkscape, but they are worried about the spec changing under them
... they got burned before with the textflow stuff we changed to please to the browser vendors

ed: what phase is it in?

ChrisL: LC

shepazu: let's move it to CR

<ChrisL> ended Feb 2008. Next step is CR

ed: yes, we'll add that to the agenda
... any other topics?

heycam: I'm going to try to write up some layout stuff to discuss concretely

ed: do we need to publish another snapshot of (more tests) of the SVG Tiny 1.2 testsuite anytime soon?

heycam: good question, I've been looking at bugs and we do need to make some fixes to the test suite

shepazu: we do need more tests, but maybe new implementers can help contribute tests
... I think we need to put a priority on 2.5D and other things that we are coordinating with the CSS WG on

ChrisL: some of the CSS proposals have been checked into CVS
... Bjoern has remarked that they are underspecified

ed__: I will put those agenda items on the wiki page

ISSUE-2181

<ChrisL> issue-2181?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2181 -- Look at Solutions for 'filter' Property Conflict with IE Filters -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2181

ed__: I couldn't find WG discussion about this

ChrisL: there was discussion on the public lists about this

[chris summarizes public discussions]

<heycam> http://markmail.org/message/p4qkphrqkhilszxq

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2004Nov/0257.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2004Nov/0259.html

ed_work: we should coordinate with CSS and HCG on this

shepazu: and the HTML WG

<ed__> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/09/08/microsoft-css-vendor-extensions.aspx

heycam: IE is making changes in IE8, we should look at that

ed_work: they are now supporting -ms-filter, too, so that's a step in the right direction

me @ChrisL: can you rejoin?

<ed__> element.style.filter = "foobar"

<ed__> some people "detect IE" by checking if element.style.filter is defined

shepazu: let's talk about this at the f2f

ChrisL: my suggestion is that we find out what hackers are doing when using that hack, and give them a better way to do it
... this is not something that happens in a stylesheet, it's a test in script

<ChrisL> its used to do opacity, and transparency in PNG images. Its only for old versions of IE, too - IE7 and up do PNG correctly

ChrisL: and otherwise just hide the filters test when it's only a test

ed_work: I think your proposal is the best way forward
... and we could push IE to drop the proprietary filter thing

SVG 1.1 Errata

<heycam> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#definition-character-cell

<ed__> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#currenttranslate-currentscale-nested-svg

I need to finish all those actions

ed__: we should set aside time to finish this up at the F2F
... and publish the errata and SVG1.1 2nd edition
... it would be nice to have all the errata done before then
... it would require new tests
... is that too optimistic

?

ChrisL: we've been going through them quickly

ed__: we could triage them and do some of them in the next version of the spec

ChrisL: it would be useful to have a 2nd ed, especially where it brings it into line with SVG 1.2

SVG Tiny 1.2

SVG Tiny 1.2 Errata

ChrisL: going forward, we should just be use the same syntax for all lists: optional comma, optional space

shepazu: heycam and I had come to a similar conclusion

ChrisL: I noted that you wanted to make exception for URIs
... since they can have commas in them
... but IRIs can also have spaces
... so a better solution is simply to require that spaces and commas be escaped

ed__: should we make this an errata item for SVG 1.1?

shepazu: we would be changing conformance criteria for SVG 1.1 UAs?

ChrisL: yes, but older content would still be conforming

shepazu: and ASV is less relevant now...

ChrisL: and has been for some time

heycam: so this affects the 1.2 errata... it should now say any combination of comma or whitespace

shepazu: what about viewBox?

heycam: in the DOM, it's exposed as an animated rect, but in the spec it's a list of numbers, and that it has to have 4 members
... so it's not an arbitrary list of values

shepazu: that's also the case for transforms

<ed__> Proposed resolution: for 1.2T the 'g1', 'g2' and 'glyphname' attributes can be comma-whitespace separated

heycam: how about using "list of xml names"?

ChrisL: that wouldn't allow a digit at the beginning

general agreement

<ed__> for the 'u1' attribute : Comma is the separator character; thus, to kern a comma, specify the comma as part of a range of Unicode characters or as a glyph name using the 'g1' attribute.

shepazu: but uDOM is typed, which list of string doesn't give us

<heycam> heycam: we state explicitly in the udom appendix what types different xml attributes are exposed as, so changing the attribute list syntax in use by a particular attribute shouldn't affect that

<heycam> http://mcc.id.au/temp/2009/font-name-list-syntax.svg

shepazu: I'd like to check that this is okay with SVG 1.1 implementers

heycam: we could start by compiling a list of affected attributes

ChrisL: agreed

shepazu: smil semicolon-separated values are essentially lists of lists; that could be a datatype

we will propose changing values in SVG 1.1 to use a uniform list style, research what changes this would entail, and get feedback from SVG 1.1 implementers

Resolution: we will propose changing values in SVG 1.1 to use a uniform list style, research what changes this would entail, and get feedback from SVG 1.1 implementers

trackbot, end telcon

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/do we need to publish more tests for SVG Tiny 1.2?/do we need to publish another snapshot of (more tests) of the SVG Tiny 1.2 testsuite anytime soon?/
Succeeded: s/errata item?/errata item for SVG 1.1?/
Succeeded: s/they can also have/IRIs can also have/
Succeeded: s/in use/in use by a particular attribute/
Found Scribe: shepazu
Found ScribeNick: shepazu
Default Present: Shepazu, ChrisL, ed, [IPcaller], heycam, Shepazu.a, +39.524.9.aaaa, ed__, +95249aabb
Present: Shepazu ChrisL ed [IPcaller] heycam Shepazu.a +39.524.9.aaaa ed__ +95249aabb
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0011.html
Found Date: 08 Jan 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: