Bi-monthly MW4D IG Teleconference

15 Dec 2008


See also: IRC log


Stephane Boyera (W3C), Ken Banks (kiwanja.net), Arun Kumar (IBM), Nicolas Chevrollier (TNO), Raphael Dard (Intracen), Mira Slavova (ITC consultant), Betty Purwandari (Univ. of Southampton), Adesina Iluyemi (Invited Expert - IRC only), Lauri Hirvonen (Nokia)
Ken, Stephane


Minutes approval


Action items

[Pending] ACTION: Arun to make a summary of voikiosk [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/17-mw4d-minutes.html#action01]: done

[Pending] ACTION: Lauri to report on Nokia work in education cursus in Africa

ongoing, Lauri not able to chat with the responsible yet

[Pending] ACTION: stephane to investigate how to get profile of people from the group

not done


<Adesina> ok, thanks

<kiwanja> betty doing introductions - background in web science

<kiwanja> at university of southampton

<Adesina> Hi betty, I am at the university of Portsmouth

Betty: working on measurement of impact of mobile web l

like improved GDP

<Adesina> Mira Slovona?

<Raphael> Slavova

<Adesina> Really, that is great Betty

<Adesina> ok, thanks for the correction

<betty> Hi Adesina, Portsmouth is very closed to Soton. Wish we could meet & discuss later.

Liberia Project

<Raphael> 10 minute presentation on the ITC Mobile solution project for Liberian Market Women

<Raphael> By Mira Slavova and Rapha�l Dard

<Raphael> Slide 2 - The request

<Raphael> * Market Women are a backbone of Liberian economy and social life

<Raphael> * Giving a hand to Market Women is consolidating this country's economy

<Raphael> * Before export can take place, national economy needs strengthening

<Raphael> * Up-coming Colloquium (ITC on the economic empowerment section of the event)

<Adesina> very close, we are neigbours

<Raphael> http://liberia.tigblog.org/

<Adesina> ok later on

<Raphael> A business matching system (using their main communication device as a channel, anywhere they are)

<Raphael> * Overcoming distances

<Raphael> * Bringing more business opportunities with less travel time

<Raphael> * Roads being rare and in bad conditions, communication is crucial for producers who need markets/buyers

<Raphael> * Linking agri-food brokers in main cities/markets with agri-food producers in countryside/villages (http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=lr&net=ct)

<Raphael> * Multiplying buyer/seller interactions/choices

<Adesina> Raphael, nice concept. lack of economic growth factor in mobile projects was disacussed at trhe M4D 2008

<Adesina> Great Raphael, kindly send to me the concept paper for the project

<Raphael> General Constraints

<Raphael> * Access to transport

<Raphael> * Literacy (45% (of the surveyed marketers) do not read or write, nor have been to any formal school http://smwf.org/reports/MarketStudyReport.pdf)

<Raphael> * Access to credit

<Raphael> * Market women as small scale brokers

<Raphael> Constraints for the information system

<Raphael> * Critical mass of system use (value is proportionate to the number of members)

<Raphael> * Incentives to report information

<Raphael> * Incentives to use the information provided

<Raphael> * Incentives to add one behaviour among established market behaviours

<Raphael> * Data-plans, when available, are still not affordable for most

<Adesina> Data service is still at the infancy in Africa

<Raphael> * Very dynamic for making business (even small scale and informal)

<Raphael> * Keen to use innovative IT applications (mobile phone-based in particular)

<Raphael> * Huge number of small transactions (a business for telcos will mean system sustainability)

<Raphael> * Phone's capacities increase

<Raphael> * Offering the possibility to browse (through offers and requests)

<Raphael> * Combining "online (connected time)" and "offline" strengths (to be studied with SMS and other protocols)

<Raphael> * Requiring registration is a must (although also a disadvantage)

<Raphael> o Basic info (name (user ID), location, business profil)

<Raphael> o Offers a certain level of confidence into the system to users

<Adesina> Is this Nicolas Chervollier?

<NicolasC> yes

<Raphael> GOAL: find the right protocols according to people and systems/devices capabilities

<Raphael> * From User to phone

<Raphael> o Verbal to data

<Raphael> * From phone to telco (& telco to phone)

<Raphael> o SMS

<Raphael> o GPRS

<Raphael> o Depending on what is available (with one telco/ with all 4 telcos)

<Raphael> * From phone to user

<Raphael> o Data to verbal (speaking phones)

<Raphael> * Is it phone-based?

<Raphael> * Is it downloadable?

<Raphael> * How much does it cost to download?

<Raphael> * Is it telco independent?

<Raphael> * Is it device independent

<Adesina> Raphael, nice concepts, I am enjoying it

<Raphael> Thanks for your attention. Your questions, advices and comments are welcome

<Zakim> steph, you wanted to ask if this is part of a more global project, and how liberia has been selected and to ask if the data service coverage is lower than gsm

steph: how did you select the country

rapahel: ITC already there

steph: goal to replicability ?

<Adesina> Discussion on the chat please

raphael: not really, useful for others, but situation may differ

i hope it will not be for liberia only, and we could give to companies

no limitation for now but it is a pilot

<Zakim> Arun, you wanted to ask how are the cost of calls compared to data service ? and to ask Raphael, we got a view of the inputs from user to system, what are the kinds of outputs to

arun: doing a similar in india, very interesting for us
... cost of data services vs voice communication

<Adesina> situation or context matters, but having a successful model is good

rapahel: cannot answer, will come back to you, interesting question

Arun: what are you expecting from the system. who is giving input ?

Rapahel: automatique input (location/phone number), and then user generated type of goods, quantity, and prices

enough for an eventual buyers

enabling people to contact each other

if needed

(also the date is important and will be there)

arun: match making system

<Zakim> NicolasC, you wanted to ask how far are u on the discussion over the business model?

nicolas: sustainable on hte long term

what is the business model ?

<Adesina> sustainbale business model?

and also very limited coverage

are producers covered ?

raphael: we have ideas on how to proceed, and also discussing with local operators

no business model yet with figures and numbers, working on it

<Adesina> ok

still flexible, depending on the system we will design

raphael: i've other maps more positive

anyway lots of people covered

and following the roads

way enough for the pilot

even if limited to monrovia, it will be enough

<Adesina> when is the pilot going to be concluded?

stephane: percentage of population covered ? but enough

raphael: not an issue for now

not sure if the subscription will be free

aim: 100 subcribers

not problem on this side

access to phones and litteracy are the biggest issues

stephane: data service coverage ?

raphael: no info, some gprs coverage but no information

still working on it

<Adesina> Access to phone is due high costs and taxation

raphael: for adesina, initial pilot in march 2009

<Adesina> Try GSMA website for GPRS coverage

<Adesina> ok raph

adesina it is your turn

question ?

<Adesina> ok,

GSMA does not have gprs coverage info

<Adesina> just a brief on M4D 2008 conference

<Adesina> Conference went well and was interesting

sorry we should come back to that later

let's finish on raphael


<kiwanja> wondering how much research has been done on other solutions and systems being used around the world - this type of project has been (and is being) tried in many places. sometimes things get replicated and lessons are not always learnt/shared

<Adesina> Different m projects ranging from health, agriculuture, insurance were presented

<Adesina> ok steph

Raphael: i got lots of information from ????? about similar agriculture system

we are not really on market prices, but on business matchings

quite different

ken: i've some examples i will send it to you
... public info you received ?

raphael: will share it when finished

<Adesina> ok

<Raphael> www.fara-africa.org

Lauri: if you need to have access to phones characteristics .mobi have a free database

<kiwanja> there's also a database of mobile devices and specs at WURFL

<kiwanja> (not sure if this is the same thing as what Lauri is talking about)

<Adesina> FARA, backed by Gates Foundation?

Lauri: the last nobel prize from finland worked a lot in Africa

he visited liberia 2 months ago

<Adesina> Attasari?


<Adesina> ok

Lauri: other area like cloths makers are potential

<kiwanja> (Nice to see you here, Mira! Welcome)

<Adesina> Hello Mira

Raphael: the one i found was C119

<Adesina> what is C119?

Nicolas: at m4d, Mr Denton from GSMA has plenty of data about Africa.

we should ask them

<Adesina> Yes, GSMA has lots of information

Lauri: on .mobi there are such info

<kiwanja> c119 (or c188) was the phone which 'won' the Emerging Market Handset (EMH) competition run by the GSMA three years ago (?)

<Adesina> Even on thier website. www.gsma.org

<kiwanja> sorry - c118

<Adesina> ok, the one form Motorola?

<kiwanja> yes

betty: user interface ? what is the current tech you are using between voice and data to cope with illiteracy

<Adesina> ok,

raphael: i cannot comment, very early phase on that point the choice of tehcnology is not done yet

<Adesina> Any information on this 3G phone for all by LG?

<kiwanja> Adesina: It's a bit like this - http://www.kiwanja.net/gallery/handsets/kiwanja_handsets_23.jpg

betty: are you planning to use camera phone ?

raphael: cannot answer

<Adesina> GSMA is also in support of this project

<Zakim> steph, you wanted to say that the characteristic is not enough

Lauri: one year ago we did a demo at unesco

using lowest end phones

very successfull

very low-cost phones includes enough to have advanced apps for video, graphic,...

Betty: interesting unesco project, could-you send info ?

<Adesina> Tapan Parikh work in India using mobile phone camera for document processing in rural areas could be useful

<scribe> ACTION: Lauri to send info about unesco project [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/15-mw4d-minutes.html#action01]

Lauri: Library of congress was part of the project

<Arun> Tapan Parikh's work uses printed bar code to integrate paper forms with online systems

<betty> Thank you very much Lauri & Adesina.

<NicolasC> all, I have to run another meeting. Look forward to reading the minutes

<Adesina> Nicolas, your e-mail pls

Raphael: in liberia, some people told us that we have to come with some phones, but the system has to work on all phones

we didn't see people using camera

and the screen were vbery bad quality

<Adesina> I met the chap at Easyfone focussed on recyling high end phones into Africa, he couls be useful here

for the moment, we are looking only at text and voice

<betty> Thanks Arun. I'm stydying Tapan Parikh's project & HSTP as well.

<NicolasC> nicolas.chevrollier@tno.nl

<Adesina> what is HSTP

<Arun> Welcome. We are working with Tapan on a project.

<Adesina> Nic: thanks

<Arun> HSTP stands for Hyperspeech Transfer Protocol.

<Arun> http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/research_people.nsf/pages/arun_kumar.pubs.html/$FILE/ht07.pdf

<betty> HSTP is cool. I'd like to discuss it more with Arun.

<Adesina> ok thanks

<Raphael> thanks a lot for all comments!

<scribe> ACTION: raphael to send a summary of the project review in liberia [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/15-mw4d-minutes.html#action02]

<Arun> Bye all. Hv a Happy New Year !

<Raphael> bonnes f�tes

<kiwanja> Thanks!

<Adesina> Happy new

bonne fetes too !

Next meeting January 5th 2009


<Adesina> will like tompresent on mHealth in the new year, sTEPH

<betty> Bye everybody. Thanks for the nice discussion.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Lauri to send info about unesco project [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/15-mw4d-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: raphael to send a summary of the project review in liberia [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/15-mw4d-minutes.html#action02]

[NEW] ACTION: Stephane to schedule a presentation by adesina about a m-health project

[Pending] ACTION: Lauri to report on Nokia work in education cursus in Africa

[Pending] ACTION: stephane to investigate how to get profile of people from the group

[End of minutes]