WAI-AGE task force

12 Nov 2008



Andrew, Isabelle, Michael, Shadi, Susanna, Suzette, William
Helle, Jack, Nacho


Business Case Updates

AA: discussed the Business Case document in EOWG
... they had some comments and feedback
... also received some editorial comments
... apart from some tidying up, mostly done with the document
... want to walk you through some of the changes

WL: meaning of business incentive is very different from country to country

AA: encouraging people to do more than the minimum

MS: disagree with WL, business case is clear in our country
... does help a lot, it is not only for North America

<Zakim> shadi, you wanted to talk about business case construction

<andrew> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/bcase/Overview.html

AA: minor changes to the overview document but made it a little stronger
... also added some more scenarios to cover more situations
... EOWG requested that the UN Convention be also mentioned in several places
... no significant changes under technical factors
... but social factors included viral marketing and word-of-mouth

<andrew> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/bcase/tech.html

AA: one of the pertinent questions is how to address WCAG 1.0 and WCAG 2.0
... for example the technical factors have several examples
... does the semi-colon work?

IM: will review the mapping and send comments by mail

MS: references to WCAG slow down the reading of the document
... not very helpful to see the Success Criteria numbers alone
... would be helpful to have the titles but that would make it very lengthy

IM: these could also be links

AA: one of the reasons why these weren't initially links is to avoid the overload
... but making them selectable is a good idea to pursue further

MS: maybe just a "show relevant checkpoints" or "success criteria" link

AA: at the end of the page, section, or separate?

MS: maybe at the end of the sections

WL: maybe the highlighting is causing some of this too


SAZ: the references change so not easy to summarize at the end of sections
... maybe put at the end of each sub-section (like a bullet) and markup clearly
... so that people can ignore it. when it is inline, it forces people to read through the references

[some agreement]

MS: would also need to be linked

IM: maybe also using a table

MS: think we need to see an example

AA: will try to come up with one example before changing all

<andrew> ACTION: b/case - consider trying to hide/reveal the WCAG material - test on a small section first [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-waiage-minutes.html#action01]

IM: a lot of criteria, maybe good to use white space on the right or left side

IM: you have a table for the comparison document
... just a thought
... like http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/comparative.html

IM: table would map the business case argument to the WCAG references

SK: I agree about the table

SAZ: Isabelle's idea of a tabular presentation is good - but maybe an extension for the wish list

SK: lot of information in the table, might provide a good summary
... in some stages several references, would be hard to manage

MS: would be good to have a link at the end of the page that leads to the next page in the suite
... it is a long document and by the time you get to the end, the navigation is all the way up

AA: good point, it is also a requirement in some literature and an advisory technique

<andrew> ACTION: b/case - provide forward/back links at the end of each document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-waiage-minutes.html#action02]

WL: has this been tested with a screen reader?

Slide Set

<andrew> http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/Drafts/slides/cl-waiage-slides.html

AA: had some discussion during the f2f meeting, primarily on the requirements document but also on one of the previous slides
... for today, want to check if there is any feedback on the requirements so far
... for example the current proposed title is "Web Accessibility for Older Users"

[AA explains some of the requirements in http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/Drafts/slides/cl-waiage-slides.html]

WL: propose to change "older people's organizations" to "older community" to widen the scope
... also to put it as first bullet

<Zakim> shadi, you wanted to disagree on audience :)

SAZ: need to have more specific audience than "older community"
... also missing users like individual advocates or interested parties
... but this is editorial, and does not need discussion now

[AA explains the approach]

WL: "demographic changes" did not ring a bell, better to have "changes in the demographics" or such

SAZ: agree, maybe need full sentences for all bullets

WL: -1 on removing W3C branding

AA: will provide clear permission statement and guidance on how to use the slide set

IM: have question on the technical level and the audience
... the primary audience is not interested in technical details but the secondary may be
... what technical level do you anticipate?
... also, to show the real issues we may need to go into technical discussions, partly beyond WCAG 2
... the second issue is that while the visual decline may be clear to many readers, the cognitive impact is unclear
... people don't really understand the issues
... may need more explanations
... also elderly people are always chasing the technical progression
... it is an on-going issue that technology evolves

AA: broke down the audience to address the technical issues
... this slide set is not intended to address the technical issues
... we are planning to develop another document that provides further technical advice

SAZ: would be good to have the feedback on the "going beyond WCAG 2" aspect into the literature review, as this is the basis
... however, the slide set is very higher level and not intended to go into any technical details

IM: for example, the slide set mentions "dementia" but is that clear?

WL: the impression that older users are novices is less important, today's newbies are tomorrows gurus
... the cognitive issue is not a 1-1 mapping

Before and After Demo

SAZ: work underway, see the mailing list if you want to follow the discussion
... might bring in something soon
... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: b/case - consider trying to hide/reveal the WCAG material - test on a small section first [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-waiage-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: b/case - provide forward/back links at the end of each document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/12-waiage-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.133 (CVS log)
$Date: 2008/11/13 14:58:20 $