W3C

- DRAFT -

HTML WG Issue Tracking Conference

25 Sep 2008

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
ChrisWilson, DaveS, Gregory_Rosmaita, Joshue, Julian, Laura, Shepazu, [Oracle], anne, marcos, smedero
Regrets
Chair
Chris_Wilson
Scribe
Joshue

Contents


 

 

<smedero> I think someone request an update on @headers but that should've happened anyway since action-72 is on the "agenda items due next week"

<anne> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2008JulSep/ has the suggestions

<pimpbot> Title: public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2008: by date (at lists.w3.org)

<anne> "

<anne> An update on the status of the @headers issue would be good."

<anne> and "Maybe we should shortly discuss the issue of "rel" attribute ownership."

<ChrisWilson> (yes, I found them immediately, Anne - I just hadn't been drinking from that firehose yet this morning. :)

<ChrisWilson> it has?

<anne> ChrisWilson, neh, public-html-wg-announce is a quite place :)

<anne> quiet, even :/

<ChrisWilson> oh, I thought you meant it was quite a place, in which case I was going to agree. :)

<anne> :p

thanks annes

<ChrisWilson> okay, let's get started

<ChrisWilson> scribe?

<ChrisWilson> Any volunteers?

scribenik: Joshue

<ChrisWilson> scribenick: Joshue

<marcos> zaki, ??P1 is me

review tracker

<ChrisWilson> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda

<pimpbot> Title: Input for Agenda Planning for the HTML Issue Tracking - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<ChrisWilson> does anyone LIKE pimpbot?

<ChrisWilson> hmm. OK, then I won't kick it.

<ChrisWilson> first item - action-38

<ChrisWilson> remand to next week, since Mike isn't here

<ChrisWilson> action-66

<ChrisWilson> Next item, ACTION-66

ACTION 66 is pretty much done. http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/66

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 66

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-66 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<ChrisWilson> Quick review of wiki page...

<Julian> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE

<pimpbot> Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE

<pimpbot> Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

Thats fine.

Laura: What is the next step then on Action 66?

CW: Have the editor review it or put it out for the group to vote on.
... Any suggestion on which route to go on?

asks Laura.

Laura: The editor has already said what he wanted to do, he wants to leave it out.

asks if we would be in deadlock situation?

CW: No, we put it to a poll.
... Look to see if there is consensus.

Josh: Thats fine with me.

Laura: Is that what you would advise?

CW: We should ask Ian to read the summary. He should review and see if there are any omissions. Poll is best way.

Laura: Ok

<ChrisWilson> ACTION: DanC to create poll on issue-32, based on Joshue's page from action-66 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-76 - Create poll on issue-32, based on Joshue's page from action-66 [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-10-02].

CW: I will raise this issue with Dan.

<ChrisWilson> action-75?

<trackbot> ACTION-75 -- Michael(tm) Smith to raise question to group about Yes, leave @profile out, No, re-add it -- and cite Hixie's summary of the discussion -- due 2008-08-28 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/75

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-75 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)

CW: I don't think Mike has done anything about this issue.
... Moving @profile to next week.
... It looks like there is a wiki page for ARIA test cases.

GJR: There is a wiki at wiki.codetalks.org and the Free ARIA group

CW: Looks like I can close this action item

GJR: Yes.

<Julian> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/23

CW: Am closing it.

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-23 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)

GJR: Ok

<ChrisWilson> action-54

<ChrisWilson> action-54?

<trackbot> ACTION-54 -- Chris Wilson to ask PF WG to look at drafted text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements -- due 2008-09-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-54 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)

CW: I have two action items that I haven't done yet.

<Laura> We are waiting PF input on our March 25 and April 15 requests for guidance. We are also waiting the outcome of Al's June 13 "CfP process proposal for a special meeting or meetings for fact-finding on issues related to @alt in HTML5".

<Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/HTMLRequestsPFresponse#head-99ed9f857ba8b7e74e3791d3ff86af0279039495

<pimpbot> Title: HTML/HTMLRequestsPFresponse - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

<Laura> After that we should be able to finish our action item 72 to draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements.

<Laura> First Draft:

<Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Action54AltAttribute

<Laura> Second Draft:

<Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Action54AltAttributeSecondDraft

<Laura> Third Draft:

<Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Action54AltAttributeThirdDraft

<pimpbot> Title: HTML/Action54AltAttribute - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

<pimpbot> Title: HTML/Action54AltAttributeSecondDraft - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

<pimpbot> Title: HTML/Action54AltAttributeThirdDraft - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

CW: PF to look at @alt (that has been done).
... The PF has looked at @alt.

GJR: Tomorrow PF has its meeting and we can discuss it there and I will then feedback to the HTML 5 group.

Dave: People are not happy with the curly braces, no breakthough yet.

<ChrisWilson> ACTION: Gregory to come back to with info from PF meeting on alt [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-html-wg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Gregory

<ChrisWilson> ACTION: GregoryRosmaita to come back to with info from PF meeting on alt [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-html-wg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - GregoryRosmaita

Anne: There are no curly braces in the draft at all.
... The draft has changed.

<Laura> The draft is a moving target

<anne> it's a draft :)

GJR: I will post to PF today in advance of discussion.

<ChrisWilson> Draft doesn't need to = erratic moving target, though. :)

<anne> (no curly braces with regard to alt, that is)

<ChrisWilson> action-72?

<trackbot> ACTION-72 -- Chris Wilson to rewrite spec to reinstate id/headers AND their functionality by specifically stating that headers are allowed to reference a td. Reword the current definition of the headers attribute so that each of the space separated tokens must have the value of the ID value of a th or td element. -- due 2008-09-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/72

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-72 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)

CW: Lets move to new action, @headers. I have not managed to catch up with it. Am happy to hand it over to someone else. I don't have a strong opinion. It is divisive.

<smedero> ChrisWilson: I think that would be http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueTableHeaders

<pimpbot> Title: HTML/IssueTableHeaders - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

CW: We need the same write up as we had for tables.

+q

Laura: We have a wiki.

CW: I don't know if it covers all perspectives.

was just going to mention wiki

<ChrisWilson> ack Joshue?

<anne> the wiki seems heavily biased

<anne> e.g. " It is an attempt to circumvent the issue not solve it."

<anne> :/

suggests updating the wiki to ensure it does cover all issues.

CW: The wiki seems biased.

Laura: Members can edit it.

Anne: I am not interested in getting involved.

CW: I would like someone to represent the other view

Anne: It seems that James et al are actively involved.

CW: Should I ask James and Henri to distill their view in wiki?
... Maybe model a new wiki on the @summary issue.
... With the pros and cons.

+q

CW: I would like this not to be biased as much as possible.

<Laura> Smart headers are a good idea, but they're not going to solve relationships to headers with compound data. From what I can make out, to make it work in the inspector, they've turned off smart headers for cells in the middle of the table, as it's not applying the headers to either the row or the column in the example.

CW: I will follow this up. Get the issues into the wiki and continue discussion until there is a consensus. If opinion is very entrenched then we will have a poll.

<ChrisWilson> issue-28?

<trackbot> ISSUE-28 -- Content type rules in HTML 5 overlaps with the HTTP specification? -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/28

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-28 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<anne> Laura, I thought jgraham said he updated the inspector to fix that bug?

<Julian> not sure

<ChrisWilson> close issue-28

<ChrisWilson> issue-32?

<trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- how to provide a summary of a table, e.g. for unsighted navigation? -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-32 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)

CW: Dans comment is that the design seems stable. We have not seen new info.

<Laura> anne, not last time I checked it.

<anne> Laura, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Sep/0465.html

<pimpbot> Title: Re: function and impacts (was: scope and headers reform) from James Graham on 2008-09-25 (public-html@w3.org from September 2008) (at lists.w3.org)

<ChrisWilson> issue-52?

<trackbot> ISSUE-52 -- Resolve XHTML2 WG objections to language in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/52

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-52 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<Julian> re issue-28: I think we'll have to re-open it when it a client that follows RFC2616 becomes non-compliant

<Julian> will have to check that

<ChrisWilson> fair enough

CW: Resolving XHMLT 2 WG objections

Anne: Still awaiting reply

<smedero> MikeSmith responded to XHTML2 WG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0067.html

<pimpbot> Title: Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 from Michael(tm) Smith on 2008-06-20 (public-xhtml2@w3.org from June 2008) (at lists.w3.org)

Anne: Mike Smith emailed them I believe.
... There is no link but am sure mail was sent.

<anne> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0036.html

<pimpbot> Title: Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 from Michael(tm) Smith on 2008-07-31 (public-xhtml2@w3.org from July 2008) (at lists.w3.org)

<anne> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0037.html

<pimpbot> Title: Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 from Roland Merrick on 2008-07-31 (public-xhtml2@w3.org from July 2008) (at lists.w3.org)

Anne: There was reply from Stephen Pemberton. Ball in their court.

<smedero> anne: I can do that

<smedero> (update the issue)

<smedero> anne: It looks like it was on the XHTML2 WG's agenda yesterday to discuss that language: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0017.html

<pimpbot> Title: [XHTML] Agenda 2008-09-24 from Roland Merrick on 2008-09-24 (public-xhtml2@w3.org from September 2008) (at lists.w3.org)

discuss the issue of "rel" attribute ownership (@Julian)

<ChrisWilson> Julian, are you here?

CW: Suggested by Julian.

Julian: The HTML5 WG and the atom link spec etc can be a URI. XHTML WG has started to query use syntax collision. Rel attribute ownership issue. I am concerned over that.

Nikunj: I have seen discussion. If we do use URi, should we be looking at who own URI assignment. Discussion on decentralisation, short names, who is assigned them. The W3C, the ITF. Julian wishes to discuss syntax position.

GJR: In response, there was a discussion this week to clarify qnames, for URI and not matching. We have had to explain this to XML WG.

s/ query, qnames

CW: What action do we want?

GJR: I am a member of XHTML 2 so I can put this on agenda etc.

Julian: I am concerned about lots of people wanting to put URIs into rel values. potential for clash. XHTML 2 calim to own the syntax for rel. Want to see disambiguation from CURIs/URI.

GJR: Please post QNames to XHTML 2.

Julian: Yes.

<anne> (though on the other hand it doesn't matter that much, different "rel" attribute after all...)

Julian: I want to ask, we missed publication of draft last month. Is there a new plan to publish it?

CW: I don't know.

Anne: It was delayed.

GJR: Did Mike set up a poll for @profile?

CW: No

GJR: I though we would vote before publication. Mike had an Action item (75).

CW: We will be up to speed with these issues next week.

GJR: We have to make sure we get this done before TPAC publishing moratorium.

CW: Thinks we are already in it.

GJR: That could be right.

<smedero> Tentative TPAC agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Sep/0303.html

<pimpbot> Title: Draft agenda, Oct. 23-24 face-to-face meeting from Michael(tm) Smith on 2008-09-10 (public-html@w3.org from September 2008) (at lists.w3.org)

<ChrisWilson> any other issues?

Nikunj: Is there an agenda for TPAC?

<ChrisWilson> move to adjourn

<Julian> bye

<ChrisWilson> adjourn

<dsinger> thanks

GJR: 13th October is last date for moratorium.

<oeddie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2008AprJun/0066.html

<ChrisWilson> wow, that's super-short. Good for us (in trying to post a draft, I mean)

<oeddie> last URI is Ian Jacobs on publication moritorium

<ChrisWilson> I'll follow up with Mike

<pimpbot> Title: HTML WG Issue Tracking Conference -- 25 Sep 2008 (at www.w3.org)

meeting, HTML WG Issue Tracking Meeting

chair, Chris_Wilson

<smedero> Joshue: I think create, draft, format, generate, make, and publish all work...

<pimpbot> Title: HTML WG Issue Tracking Conference -- 25 Sep 2008 (at www.w3.org)

<smedero> (and all do the same thing, afaik)

<oeddie> smedero, yes, there are 6 synonyms

<smedero> ok

thanks y'all

<pimpbot> Title: HTML WG Issue Tracking Conference -- 25 Sep 2008 (at www.w3.org)

bye

<smedero> I don't believe any were sent to public-html

<smedero> DanC is at the TAG F2F though

<oeddie> thanks, smedero - do you know who called in from oracle?

<smedero> No, I don't.

<oeddie> me neither - i'll just leave as is

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: DanC to create poll on issue-32, based on Joshue's page from action-66 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Gregory to come back to with info from PF meeting on alt [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-html-wg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: GregoryRosmaita to come back to with info from PF meeting on alt [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-html-wg-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.133 (CVS log)
$Date: 2008/09/25 17:01:15 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/ query, qnames
Succeeded: s/query/QNames/
Found ScribeNick: Joshue
Inferring Scribes: Joshue
Default Present: Julian, smedero, ChrisWilson, anne, +1.408.398.aadd, Joshue, Laura, marcos, DaveS, Shepazu, [Oracle], Gregory_Rosmaita
Present: ChrisWilson DaveS Gregory_Rosmaita Joshue Julian Laura Shepazu [Oracle] anne marcos smedero
Got date from IRC log name: 25 Sep 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/25-html-wg-minutes.html
People with action items: danc gregory gregoryrosmaita

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.


[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]