<csma> Harold, would you scribe? Or do you think you will be too busy, as editor of BLD and FLD?

<csma> clear agenda

<csma> agendum+ Admin

<csma> Agendum+ Liaisons

<csma> Agendum+ Actions review

<csma> Agendum+ Publications

<csma> Agendum+ Core

<csma> Agendum+ AOB

<csma> scribe: Mike Dean

<csma> scribenick: mdean

Admin

<csma> PROPOSED: accept minutes of telecon July 15

<csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jul/att-0159/RIF-telecon-minutes-15-July-2008.html

RESOLUTION: accept minutes of telecon July 15

Liaisons

Axel on OWL Liaison

Axel: telecon yesterday with I18N and OWL WG on rif:text/owl:internationalizedString - minutes posted to WGs
... most likely outcome: single overall datatype in both WGs using rdf namespace (like rdf:text)
... should there be a datatype hierararchy for language tags? disregarded to avoid separating value spaces
... additional RIF builtins for language tag matching

<scribe> ... on-going discussion - meet again in 2 weeks

Sandro: enumerated attendees - nothing else to add

<AxelPolleres> minutes are here: http://www.w3.org/2008/07/21-i18n-minutes.html

csma: XQuery published new documents

Axel: one draft of DTB included predicates to evaluate XQuery on XML literals

csma: discuss in next draft

no other liaison reports

<AxelPolleres> indeed such a built-in would have some tricky implications (dealing with sequences, etc.)

<MichaelKifer> is there a problem with the telecon system? It tells me that the passcode is invalid (several times)

I used 74394 successfully

<MichaelKifer> ok

<sandro> MichaelKifer, when you called in we all heard a loud continuous tone.

<MichaelKifer> I am using cell phone, but the reception is v good, so I dont know.

<AxelPolleres> yes

<sandro> It sounded like feedback, MichaelKifer. Is it possibe your speaker and mic are too close or echoing or something?

Sandro updating actions in action tracker

csma: shortest action list in a very long time

Actions review

publications

csma: difficult to keep track of changes
... reopen period of review

<scribe> ... new vote on Last Call as early as possible

<Hassan> I second this motion for more time to reevaluate the latest copy to be frozen

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: for BLD

josb: also reopen DTB and SWC

csma: DTB is first public WD - could be treated differently

<Hassan> I also agree with Josb's - to harmonize all documents as soon as possible

josb: cannot use F2F resolution because more substantive changes have been made for BLD, FLD, and SWC

sandro: good idea to publish all at the same time - for external readers

<Harold> +1 to Sandro

sandro: worth delaying 2 weeks, but perhaps not more
... revote on everything, but don't change decisions from last F2F
... vote no only if new information

<AxelPolleres> BTW: or all publications we need to fix the links (from wiki-links to the WD/LC) but that's probably a minor technical thing, right? Is this automatized?

<josb> Axel, yes this is automated

<sandro> Sandro: I'm okay with another vote, as long as we're clear that the only reason to vote NO is because something was changed that should not have been changed, given the resolutions at the last F2F.

csma: UCR and PRD did not change - have been waiting for almost a month
... could differentiate between Last Call

MKifer: Stella reviewing current version

josb: vote next Tuesday (soon as possible)

<AxelPolleres> +1 vote soon and get things out, unless serious concerns raised until next telco.

csma: name new reviewers (1 week for reviews, 1 week for changes) - or announce that we will vote next week

sandro: some changes on Wiki since last frozen versions
... could do new freeze after telecon

josb: Stella reviews after freeze - editorial changes

<Hassan> Makes sense to make it swiftly this time on the older docs (BLD, DTB) - more time may be needed on the newer (e.g. PRD)

Harold: everyone should look at newly frozen versions

csma: probably with JavaScript in UCR

sandro: haven't looked at this yet
... copied from OWL draft that was already published - should be easy to resolve

csma: wait 1 hour to add comment from Gary on PRD

josb: section 6.1 numbered list is incorrect (but OK on Wiki) - also subnumbering

sandro: pseudo markup problem
... BLD has 91 HTML errors
... probably caused by running Tidy

<sandro> append ,validate

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/SWC,validate

<StellaMitchell> list numbering problems in sections 3.2 and 3.3 in BLD also

<AxelPolleres> I assume ALL editors shall do that.

sandro: all editors should at least validate documents
... do now - formal actions not needed

<josb> SWC now has valid HTML

<josb> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/SWC,checklinks

sandro: links should be to other Wiki pages, will be converted to TR at publication

Core

csma: questions from Gary - When will we have XML Schema for PRD? Will this import Core? Intersection of PRD and BLD? Specified directly?
... Having BLD XML Schema import Core would be a substantial change
... BLD Schema doesn't separate Core

sandro: think we could do this after Last Call
... editorial at the schema level

<Harold> I agree, if the defined language is the same, such a re-modularization is editorial.

csma: not a showstopper for BLD last call
... should Core be a separate document?

sandro: preferable to separate, but not required - can we find an editor?

<csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/48

<AxelPolleres> Can/Shall we decide on that in the next F2F? I think this needs more discussion. I don't have a clear picture at this moment what the exact intersection is, to be honest.

csma: is it pure intersection or are some common things not in Core? issue 48 about classification constructs
... no urgency to discuss this today

<Harold> From the BLD point of view, we had: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/index.php?title=BLD&oldid=670#Appendix:_Subdialects_of_RIF-BLD

Gary: Core dynamically defined as intersection of all standard dialects - at least for now
... driven by real use case of published dialects

no volunteers to edit a new document

axel: needs discussion at F2F meeting
... need to review further

<GaryHallmark> I would rather wait for that 3rd or 4th dialect...

gary: danger in throwing things out prematurely

<Hassan> +1 on adjourning

<AxelPolleres> +1

<GaryHallmark> +1

adjourned

<csma> eesagent, make minutes

<csma> scribenick: mdean

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Christian/csma/
Succeeded: s/reopen DTB/reopen DTB and SWC/
Succeeded: s/previous/current/
Succeeded: s/then/next telco/
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Found Scribe: Mike Dean
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Default Present: csma, Mike_Dean, josb, Sandro, LeoraMorgenstern, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, StellaMitchell, Harold, AxelPolleres, Gary_Hallmark, MichaelKifer, +0208995aaaa
Present: csma Mike_Dean josb Sandro LeoraMorgenstern Hassan_Ait-Kaci StellaMitchell Harold AxelPolleres Gary_Hallmark MichaelKifer +0208995aaaa

WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Sandro, Hawke, ChrisWelty, MohamedZergaoui)
Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ ChrisWelty, LeoraMorgenstern, MohamedZergaoui, DaveReynolds, AdrianPaschke

Regrets: ChrisWelty LeoraMorgenstern MohamedZergaoui DaveReynolds AdrianPaschke
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jul/0170.html
Got date from IRC log name: 22 Jul 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-rif-minutes.html
People with action items: