SVG Working Group Teleconference -- 19 Jun 2008

<trackbot> Date: 19 June 2008

<scribe> Scribe: Cameron

<scribe> ScribeNick: heycam

SVG IG

DS: i met with jeff schiller, who is the co-chair of the SVG IG, along with me
... he and i have been working on the wiki and we plan on having a meeting next thursday

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/wiki/Meeting_2008-06

DS: we want to basically have a very focussed set of first meetings
... one thing that the wiki page doesn't mention is the idea of the "japanese chapter"
... i'll dedicate a page on the wiki to that

ED: so the acid test stuff, that's possible future activities, why?

DS: this is svg acid tests
... why future and not current? because a good acid test will take a while to build. and we don't want to intimidate people.
... we want to set a relatively simple goal and meet it and then move on to the next relatively simple goal
... and build up into more complex goals
... fwiw jeff's already started on it
... we have a number of members

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=42368

DS: we're hoping to get more
... specifically, we're hoping to get more designers

Public CVS transition

ED: any progress?

DS: i've made some limited progress

<shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/

DS: haven't started moving the files over yet
... i was hoping that people owning particular modules would move them over
... I guess i can just move 1.2 tiny over directly

CM: the tiny build scripts have dependencies outside the 1.2T directory

DS: ultimately we'll have to fix the scripts

<anthony> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2002

DS: tony, you have a related action to look at scripts and consolidate them?

AG: that's the action
... how soon?

DS: next three weeks?

AG: i'd probably just copy the directory over to the new CVS, without checking it in, then get the script running locally first, then commit it
... don't think it'd be too difficult

DS: since we're working in public i'm eager to get everything in public
... especially because people will be wanting to see why we're making changes in the test suite

ED: so could we expect 1.2T to be moved over by some time next week?

DS: test suite?

ED: no but that would be good to move over too

DS: to start off with i could move the publish/ directory over

AG: the script doesn't look like it does anything too fancy
... it doesn't do too much "../../"ing

CM: the idl one might though

DS: somebody said there were some tricky bits. each individual spec had some specialised "bits".

ED: that's what anthony's action is yes, finding the common parts?

DS: right

ED: to clarify, who is moving the spec over?

DS: i will take the action to move over the publish/ directory
... should we have a 'spec/' directory in 1.2T/ ?

AG: we have master/ and publish/
... don't check anything into the tools/ directory yet

DS: i'll add a master/ and publish/ directory to 1.2T/
... i'll move over some of the published stuff, like the in-cvs published 1.2T spec

<scribe> ACTION: Doug to create a publish/ and master/ directory in CVS, and to copy over the current contents of the 1.2T publish/ directory to dev.w3.org [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2069 - Create a publish/ and master/ directory in CVS, and to copy over the current contents of the 1.2T publish/ directory to dev.w3.org [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-06-26].

DS: and transition of the test suite?
... where should that go?
... under 1.2T/, yes?
... 1.2T/test/

CM: keeping the same structure in the test suite directory? (like svg, svggen, etc.)

AG: yeah

(we decide to hold off on migrating the test suite for now)

Testsuite publication

DS: i will do it today

ED: the link from the wiki page is incorrect; it links to the old one

DS: andrew put that link in there and asked me to correct it when it's published, which i'll do

AG: is it easy enough to publish?

DS: chrisl says if you upload a lot at once, it gets confused

1.1 errata

ED: i edited errata.xml today, so i'd like to discuss my addition

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0143.html

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement_clarifications

ED: we discussed last time why an exception is thrown for negative method parameters, even though the type is unsigned
... so i'm wondering if this is something we should fix at all, because there might be differences in different languages
... maybe even which type of exception is thrown
... so i'm suggesting to keep what we have
... i only made some minor corrections in the errata item

CM: can you summarise?

ED: there are exceptions raised for negative first parameter of getSubStringLength(), or if the number of characters you try to measure is greater than the characters in the node
... this will be changed so that if you pass length longer than the string that it will be clipped to the number of characters that are there
... this will make it similar to selectSubString()

<ed> If nchars specifies more characters than are available, then the substring will consist of all characters starting with charnum until the end of the list of characters.

ED: so it won't raise an exception any more if you give a very large value for nchars
... still raising exception if you use negative values for the first, and a new exception if you use a negative value for the second
... next change is that it wasn't clear when you have characters that can't be separated (surrogate pairs, glyphs that map to multiple characters)
... now it says the range is expanded to include the whole glyph
... in selectSubString(), there is the change to raise an exception if the second parameter is negative
... and in getSubStringLength(), it raises an exception if you pass in a starting character number that is larger than the number of characters in the node
... I have a test case too, linked from the errata item
... it tests everything in getSubStringLength(), and i'm going to add a test for selectSubString() too
... so i propose we move this errata item to proposed

CM: UTF-16 codepoints vs characters?

ED: there's one errata for getNumberOfChars() that uses the codepoint language

ISSUE: All of the SVGTextContentElement methods should be referring to UTF-16 codepoints instead of characters, in SVG 1.1

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2008 - All of the SVGTextContentElement methods should be referring to UTF-16 codepoints instead of characters, in SVG 1.1 ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2008/edit .

<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to fix ISSUE-2008 by adding an errata item that adds a paragraph at the start of SVGTextContentElement about it, and change the getNumberOfChars() one back to using the word "characters" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2070 - Fix ISSUE-2008 by adding an errata item that adds a paragraph at the start of SVGTextContentElement about it, and change the getNumberOfChars() one back to using the word \"characters\" [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-06-26].

RESOLUTION: we move ed's SVGTextContentElement errata item to propose

trackbot, close ACTION-2010

<trackbot> ACTION-2010 Clarify/errata for text DOM methods in SVG 1.1, specify that unrendered characters don't contribute to the computation; remove exceptions of getSubStringLength; clarify about unseparable characters closed

trackbot, you rule

<trackbot> Sorry, heycam, I don't understand 'trackbot, you rule'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

ED: publishing the errata?

CM: how about after i do my one

SVG in HTML

DS: some initial discussion on #html-wg, a few substantive comments
... there are two separate proposals, which wasn't so clear
... there are some jargon terms in there that aren't defined clearly enough
... some confusion about where something in handled (in the parser, tokenizer, whereever)
... so we'll have to work on it

AG: it is a draft, after all

DS: there were some comments saying that tony's proposal wouldn't achieve some of the things we were hoping for (e.g. attribute quoting, well-formedness)
... and a comment about where it breaks out from the content
... so those are the things we'll have to tighten up

ED: so that's not in CVS yet?

DS: maybe i'll make a separate directory for proposals

ED: so we should go through the proposal offline

Script executing under progressive rendering

http://www.w3.org/mid/20080616054241.GB29149@arc.mcc.id.au

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0133.html

CM: blah blah <script> order of execution...

(we decide that the important point is that <script> elements execute in document order)

(modulo insertion of new <script> elements into the document)

CM: so i'll propose some text for that as part of my ACTION-2063

Behaviour of SVGLengthList.replaceItem()

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0141.html

CM: tested some implementations, none are the same

ED: maybe we can ask the svg community

I think the index is probably the index of the item to be replaced before

the new item has been removed from its current list.

-- Jeff Schiller

ED: i'm happy either way, but would like to choose the more intuitive one

CM: sounds good to me

AG: somebody should reply to jeff saying we decided that way

<scribe> ACTION: Erik to errata replaceItem() to make the index be before the removal of the argument item in the list, and to reply to jeff on www-svg [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2071 - Errata replaceItem() to make the index be before the removal of the argument item in the list, and to reply to jeff on www-svg [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-26].

Issues and actions

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/2

ED: two open issues, no actions assigned

trackbot, ISSUE-2003?

<trackbot> Sorry, heycam, I don't understand 'trackbot, ISSUE-2003?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

ISSUE-2003?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2003 -- Resolving IRIs for Resource Documents -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2003

<scribe> ACTION: Erik to check what Opera does with ISSUE-2003 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2072 - Check what Opera does with ISSUE-2003 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-26].

ISSUE-2004

CM: how about making the udom default to throwing an exception when NaN or Infinity is passed in to a float parameter?
... and then override that in a method description if we need to
... maybe not throwing for setFloatTrait()? because traits we define later might use those values?

ED: i think we throw for that method already

<ed> DOMException TYPE_MISMATCH_ERR: Raised if the requested trait's value cannot be specified as a numeric float (e.g. NaN).

<ed> setFloatTrait

<ed> (that's the CR version of the spec)

CM: is Infinity numeric? :)

<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to investigate existing uses of float in the 1.2T IDL for ISSUE-2004, to see which ones should throw and which shouldn't [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2073 - Investigate existing uses of float in the 1.2T IDL for ISSUE-2004, to see which ones should throw and which shouldn't [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-06-26].

(we all agree to be more responsive on www-svg :))

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

19 Jun 2008

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