<ShaneM_> here's the link about attributes in namespaces: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/#defaulting

"Default namespace declarations do not apply directly to attribute names; the interpretation of unprefixed attributes is determined by the element on which they appear."

Null namespace discussion

<oedipus> there are elements of the audience that won't grok it because they don't care and would rather have things buttoned-down and controlled

Yam: What a mess! Hard to follow

Steven: Yes, there is a division between those who want it easy to implement and thos ewho want it easy to author
... and there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding about the namespace spec

<ShaneM_> q

Shane: We never say that our attributes are in the null namespace and the XHTML namespace

Steven: We do! (Though not with the null namespace bit, which is part of the misunderstanding I was referring to)
... in M12N we say that all common attributes can be used as global attributes, but not on our elemenets

Shane: Indeed, though we don't forbid them being imported chameleon-like into their namespace

Steven: We don't indeed

<ShaneM_> XHTML2 working draft: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/mod-xforms.html#s_xformsmodule

Shane: Is XForms in the same namespace as the other XHTML2 elements?

Steven: That is the aim
... but I am sure we will get pushback at last call
... it is a long-running discussion

<ShaneM_> Current xml-events language in xhtml2 says: Note that these attributes are not in the XHTML namespace but in the XML Events namespace. The XHTML namespace is the default namespace for XHTML documents, so XHTML elements and attributes may be expressed without namespace prefixes (although they are permitted on elements). XML Events attributes MUST use a prefix, since they are not in the default namespace of the document.

Roland: We shouldn't require people to have to do all the namespace manipulation in the DOM, it is too hard
... XML Events2 is a chance to move the markup into the XHTML namespace
... especially since it introduces handlers

<ShaneM_> I have implemented "getElementsByAttr" and "getElementsByAttrNS" in a library, fwiw

Roland: This is a big subject, and we should spend time at the FtF [ear-to-ear?] discussing it at length

<ShaneM_> +1

June FtF

<Roland> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2008-06-Minneapolis-FtF

Roland: I have updated the wiki page with times. Anyone looked?

Steven: OK with me

Shane: I'm OK

Gregory: Me too

Roland: If it is a problem for you Yam we will try to arrange agenda topics to suit your availability
... 8:00-16:00 UTC

Yam: Quite reasonable

Roland: Four 90 minutes sessions

Yam: OK

Roland: We need to spend time on the finished last calls
... features and namespaces
... Please send requests for agenda items

CURIE syntax

Roland: Last call will be finished by the meeting

Access

Roland: Now in last call
... Gregory, you still have an action item on that

Gregory: I'll review what it was

Yam: Is it in last call?

Steven: Yes, apparently it was wrong to send the announcement a day early

Roland: Ian Jacobs sent the message on Monday

Shane: And it is on the W3C homepage too

M12N transition

Roland: That is this Friday

Steven: If we were to use the same exit criteria as V1, would we be OK with that?

Roland: Well, I think it should be that way!

Shane: I have several languages already, XHTML 1.1, XHTML Basic 1.1, XHTML 1.1+RDFa

Steven: What about the legacy module?

Shane: Mark uses it

Steven: Yay! Sidewinder is open source, so that is a public use

AOB

<scribe> ACTION: Shane to produce a draft implementation report for M12N [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]

<scribe> ACTION: Steven to produce summary of M12N history in advance of transition call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-xhtml-minutes.html#action02]

[ADJOURN]