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13:39:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-xhtml-irc
13:39:46 <Tina> ShaneM_: you are only visible once ...
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13:39:58 <Steven> zakim, this will be xhtml
13:39:58 <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
13:40:10 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public
13:40:33 <Steven> Meeting: Weekly XHTML2 Teleconference
13:40:37 <Steven> Chair: Roland
13:41:16 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0111
13:41:25 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0111
13:41:35 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
13:41:42 <Zakim> +ShaneM
13:41:54 <Steven> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-minutes.html
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13:44:08 <Zakim> +Roland
13:47:09 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
13:47:09 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:47:11 <Zakim> +Steven
13:47:12 <Zakim> +??P8
13:47:24 <yamx> zakim, ??P8 is yamx
13:47:24 <Zakim> +yamx; got it
13:49:52 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
13:50:29 <Roland> Regrets: +Alessio
13:51:05 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes
13:51:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
13:51:33 <Roland> rrsagent, make log public
13:52:53 <ShaneM_> here's the link about attributes in namespaces: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/#defaulting 
13:53:40 <Steven> "Default namespace declarations do not apply directly to attribute names; the interpretation of unprefixed attributes is determined by the element on which they appear."
13:56:06 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
13:56:15 <Steven> Topic: Null namespace discussion
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14:01:54 <oedipus> there are elements of the audience that won't grok it because they don't care and would rather have things buttoned-down and controlled
14:07:19 <Steven> Yam: What a mess! Hard to follow
14:07:41 <Steven> Steven: Yes, there is a division between those who want it easy to implement and thos ewho want it easy to author
14:08:24 <Steven> ... and there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding about the namespace spec
14:11:21 <ShaneM_> q
14:17:40 <Steven> Shane: We never say that our attributes are in the null namespace and the XHTML namespace
14:18:00 <Steven> Steven: We do! (Though not with the null namespace bit, which is part of the misunderstanding I was referring to)
14:18:25 <Steven> ... in M12N we say that all common attributes can be used as global attributes, but not on our elemenets
14:19:00 <Steven> Shane: Indeed, though we don't forbid them being imported chameleon-like into their namespace
14:19:09 <Steven> Steven: We don't indeed
14:19:48 <ShaneM_> XHTML2 working draft: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/mod-xforms.html#s_xformsmodule
14:21:36 <Steven> Shane: Is XForms in the same namespace as the other XHTML2 elements?
14:21:39 <Steven> Steven: That is the aim
14:21:51 <Steven> ... but I am sure we will get pushback at last call
14:22:02 <Steven> ... it is a long-running discussion
14:22:24 <ShaneM_> Current xml-events language in xhtml2 says: Note that these attributes are not in the XHTML namespace but in the XML Events namespace. The XHTML namespace is the default namespace for XHTML documents, so XHTML elements and attributes may be expressed without namespace prefixes (although they are permitted on elements). XML Events attributes MUST use a prefix, since they are not in the default namespace of the document.
14:22:37 <Steven> Roland: We shouldn't require people to have to do all the namespace manipulation in the DOM, it is too hard
14:23:43 <Steven> Roland: XML Events2 is a chance to move the markup into the XHTML namespace
14:24:04 <Steven> ... especially since it introduces handlers
14:29:05 <ShaneM_> I have implemented "getElementsByAttr" and "getElementsByAttrNS" in a library, fwiw
14:29:52 <Steven> Roland: This is a big subject, and we should spend time at the FtF [ear-to-ear?] discussing it at length
14:30:01 <ShaneM_> +1
14:30:25 <Steven> Topic: June FtF
14:30:41 <Roland> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2008-06-Minneapolis-FtF
14:30:58 <Steven> Roland: I have updated the wiki page with times. Anyone looked?
14:31:01 <Steven> Steven: OK with me
14:31:05 <Steven> Shane: I'm OK
14:31:17 <Steven> Gregory: Me too
14:31:39 <Steven> Roland: If it is a problem for you Yam we will try to arrange agenda topics to suit your availability
14:31:56 <Steven> ... 8:00-16:00 UTC
14:32:02 <Steven> Yam: Quite reasonable
14:32:09 <Steven> ROland: 4 90 minutes sessions
14:32:15 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
14:32:18 <Steven> Yam: OK
14:32:48 <Steven> Roland: We need to spend time on the finished last calls
14:32:59 <Steven> ... features and namespaces
14:33:10 <Steven> ... Please send requests for agenda items
14:33:30 <Steven> Topic: CURIE syntax
14:33:42 <Steven> Roland:Last call will be finished by the meeting
14:33:51 <Steven> Topic: Access
14:34:00 <Steven> Roland: Now in last call
14:34:08 <Steven> ... Gregory, you still have an action item on that
14:34:20 <Steven> Gregory: I'll review what it was
14:35:54 <Steven> Yam: Is it in last call?
14:36:10 <Steven> Steven: Yes, apparently it was wrong to send the announcement a day early
14:36:20 <Steven> Roland: Ian Jacobs sent the message on Monday
14:36:31 <Steven> Shane: And it is on the W3C hopepage too
14:36:38 <Steven> s/hope/home/
14:36:47 <Steven> Topic: M12N transition
14:36:53 <Steven> Roland: THat is this Friday
14:36:59 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
14:41:15 <Steven> Steven: If we were to use the same exit criteria as V1, would we be OK with that?
14:41:26 <Steven> Roland: Well, I think it should be that way!
14:42:32 <Steven> Shane: I have several languages already, XHTML 1.1, XHTML Basic 1.1, XHTML 1.1+RDFa
14:42:41 <Steven> Steven: What about the legacy module?
14:42:56 <Steven> SHane: Mark uses it
14:43:09 <Steven> Steven: Yay! Sidewinder is open source, so that is a public use
14:43:15 <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
14:43:28 <Steven> Topic: AOB
14:43:50 <Steven> ACTION: Shane to produce a draft implementation report for M12N
14:44:33 <Zakim> -ShaneM
14:44:35 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
14:44:35 <Zakim> -Steven
14:44:36 <Zakim> -Roland
14:44:36 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
14:44:37 <Zakim> Attendees were ShaneM, Roland, Steven, yamx, Gregory_Rosmaita
14:44:42 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to produce summary of M12N history in advance of transition call
14:45:01 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
14:45:08 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:45:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
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