SVG Working Group Teleconference -- 13 May 2008

<trackbot-ng> Date: 13 May 2008

<scribe> Scribe: Andrew Emmons

<scribe> ScribeNick: aemmons

<ChrisL> trackbot-ng, status

JSR Coordination Issues

<ChrisL> Scribe: Andrew

<ChrisL> ScribeNick: aemmons

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0055.html

CL: We said it would just be traits, but you cannot access everyhitng with just traits so we added get/set attribute
... We got comfortable with get/setAttribute. The issue is if they can normalize. With DOM 3 they can
... We say normalization will happen in SVGT 1.2
... Can't put 7 spaces, value and do getAttribute and expect spaces
... Whay do they want it removed

ED: They were added at the request of CDF

CL: Ok, so it's the same as setAttributeNS but using null
... Worrying about what happens when you get a qualified attribute
... If you as for href, do you get xlink:href or only an unnames attribute called href?
... Most attributes we have are unqualified
... Most of our attribures are in the unnamed namespace
... I do not see their examples as counter-intuitive
... As their example increases, it gets confusing

DS: We should ask them to join a telcon

CL: I don't understand how they are getting the answers they do
... Think we need to respond to their e-mail asking for clarifications

<scribe> ACTION: Aemmons to write JSR 287 EG and ask for clarification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2011 - Write JSR 287 EG and ask for clarification [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-05-20].

Path normalization close command

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0015.html

ED: Discussed this in previous telcon

CL: Saw a concern that if path added an extra line it would affect interpolation of path data because there is an extra segment

DS: Also affects semantics of it. Script trying to detect if something was a closed path might have more difficulty

ED: I wasn't saying you remove the close command, but close command interpreted as a lineTo

DS: I think adding a 'z' is enough

ED: Yes, the spec says if the end path is not the same as the start, you do a lineTo the start
... But am fine either way
... No strong opinion

CL: Would like to see what implementations do
... Would like to see a test. One with implicit close one without
... Investigate a bit what implementations do

DS: What implementations do we expect to test?

CL: is the normalization aspect part of 1.1?

ED: Partly, it says these are the allowed commands but does not mandate how it is done

CL: It is now a problem because now we have internal normilization exposed ( what is in the DOM )
... 1.2 Tiny implementations but worth it to investigate 1.1 as well, the interpolation aspect at least

DS: I ask because I do not use these as an author ( Path DOM ) for 1.1

CL: Test 2 paths, see if they interpolate, no DOM used there
... Separately, another which has a path and then uses DOM to display segments

DS: Might be best to simply specify something and notify implementations.
... If we're finding this now, seems like a minor issue

CL: I don't think so.
... Certainly worth testing the interpolation with 1.1

<scribe> ACTION: Andreas to create two tests for normalizing 'z'. One with interpolation with 1.1, another with path DOM. Note one exists already for 1.2 DOM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2012 - Create two tests for normalizing 'z'. One with interpolation with 1.1, another with path DOM. Note one exists already for 1.2 DOM [on Andreas Neumann - due 2008-05-20].

RESOLUTION: We will investigate quickly the issues, hopefully by the F2F meeting

Initial response for font-style issue

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Apr/0070.html

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0033.html

ED: Cameron suggests fixing our free font to have an italic version

CL: Sure, font exists, we could use it
... All doesn't mean it guarentees it has bold/italic, it means it's really not telling you what it has
... A agree, having italic as well would be good, and font-style. But those are specific responses to the test

AE: IN other words, there needsw to still be some clarification

CL: I don't mind responding

<scribe> ACTION: Chris to respond to Kalle regarding font-style issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2013 - Respond to Kalle regarding font-style issue [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-05-20].

Font-family selection

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Apr/0069.html

CL: Again, requires some possible clarification in the spec.
... I strated to look at this and collect the relevant pieces.

<ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#aname

<ChrisL> A full font name would be Helvetica-BoldItalic

<ChrisL> a font family name would be helvetica

CL: A lot of Adobe tools get this wrong

<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/fonts.html#FontFaceNameElement doesn't really say anything about what it is

<scribe> ACTION: Chris to review font-family selection e-mail, bring issues back to the group for discussion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2014 - Review font-family selection e-mail, bring issues back to the group for discussion [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-05-20].

<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/fonts.html#FontFaceSrcElement compare to http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/fonts.html#FontFaceSrcElement :)

ED: SVG 1.2 has a better definition

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/products/13

ISSUE-272

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/272

<scribe> ACTION: Aemmons to make suggested changes discussed in issue-272 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2015 - Make suggested changes discussed in issue-272 [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-05-20].

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/334

Issue-334

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/334

ED: Agree, would be nice to have some combined tests ( scripting/animation )

<scribe> ACTION: Anthony to create test with both animation and scripting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2016 - Create test with both animation and scripting [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-05-20].

<ChrisL> eg an animation from red to yellow, half way through a script changes red to blue on the element so the animation now goes from blue to yellow

ISSUE-337

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/337

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/337

<scribe> ACTION: CHange test as discussed in issue-337 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - CHange

<scribe> ACTION: Aemmons to CHange test as discussed in issue-337 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2017 - CHange test as discussed in issue-337 [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-05-20].

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage

Libre graphics

<ChrisL> http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2008/index.php?lang=en&action=program

CL: Conference in Wrocław
... Had a talk on SVG
... Much of useful stuff. A lot of Inkscape guys
... Talked to the implementer of filters
... Designer there with a demo of Inkscape

<shepazu> s/Poland/Wrocław, Poland, Poland/

CL: Mostly developers on opensource projects
... Everyone is using SVG
... Was useful being there to give answers
... Interesting presentation - designers who showed how they work with free software
... Inkscape, Scribus. SVG as common exchange format
... SVG generated by databases via script
... Eventualy target CYMK print
... Using flowing text feature
... Both are interested in support for ICC color and SVG Print
... Talk on WebFonts - interesting but used to giving the talk to designers
... Demoed video fonts in Raindow
... Showed BitFlash with video tests from testsuite
... A lot of questions about 1.2
... Not just a mobile spec
... Explained module architecture
... They are excited about vector Effects
... Promoted SVG IG
... Got interviewed by designers who are interested in 'process'
... Go out as a podcast
... Said W3C has way to involve Engineers, Managers and Lawyers. Working on Designers
... Getting dialogue, etc
... I spoke with Liam, talking about XSL and SVG to work closely
... Want to know how to do padding which is not rectangular
... Going to propose somehting to the XSL group
... It was very productive
... Totally free conference

<ChrisL> http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2008/index.php?lang=en

<ChrisL> http://pledgie.com/campaigns/613

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

13 May 2008

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