10:30:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
10:30:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-irc
10:30:31 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs public
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10:30:33 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
10:30:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng, I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM already started
10:30:34 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
10:30:34 <trackbot-ng> Date: 13 May 2008
10:33:00 <aemmons> zakim, who is here?
10:33:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
10:33:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, aemmons, ed, anthony, heycam, shepazu, trackbot-ng
10:35:48 <aneumann> aneumann has joined #svg
10:37:47 <ed> Zakim, pick a victim
10:37:47 <Zakim> I don't see anyone present, ed
10:38:42 <aemmons> Scribe: Andrew Emmons
10:38:50 <aemmons> ScribeNick: aemmons
10:39:04 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0032.html
10:39:47 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
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10:47:00 <ChrisL> trackbot-ng, status
10:49:35 <ChrisL> rrsagent, here
10:49:35 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-irc#T10-49-35
10:50:36 <aemmons> Topic: JSR Coordination Issues
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10:51:11 <ChrisL> Present: Andrew, Andreas, Anthony, Chris, Erik
10:51:16 <aemmons> Topic: JSR Coordination Issues
10:51:20 <ChrisL> Regrets: Cameron
10:51:36 <ChrisL> Chair: Erik
10:51:44 <ChrisL> Scribe: Andrew
10:51:52 <ChrisL> ScribeNick: aemmons
10:52:00 <ChrisL> rrsagent, here
10:52:00 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-irc#T10-52-00
10:52:18 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0055.html
10:53:32 <shepazu> Zakim, who is here?
10:53:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
10:53:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisL, aneumann, Zakim, RRSAgent, aemmons, ed, anthony, heycam, shepazu
10:54:08 <trackbot-ng> trackbot-ng has joined #svg
10:54:35 <aemmons> CL: We said it would just be traits, but you cannot access everyhitng with just traits so we added get/set attribute
10:55:14 <aemmons> CL: We got comfortable with get/setAttribute. The issue is if they can normalize. With DOM 3 they can
10:55:39 <aemmons> CL: We say normalization will happen in SVGT 1.2
10:55:54 <aemmons> CL: Can't put 7 spaces, value and do getAttribute and expect spaces
10:56:07 <aemmons> CL: Whay do they want  it removed
10:56:20 <aemmons> ED: They were added at the request of CDF
10:56:59 <aemmons> CL: Ok, so it's the same as setAttributeNS but using null
10:57:17 <aemmons> CL: Worrying about what happens when you get a qualified attribute
10:57:42 <aemmons> CL: If you as for href, do you get xlink:href or only an unnames attribute called href?
10:57:50 <aemmons> CL: Most attributes we have are unqualified
10:58:25 <aemmons> CL: Most of our attribures are in the unnamed namespace
10:59:56 <aemmons> CL: I do not see their examples as counter-intuitive
11:01:21 <aemmons> CL: As their example increases, it gets confusing
11:01:29 <aemmons> DS: We should ask them to join a telcon
11:01:45 <aemmons> CL: I don't understand how they are getting the answers they do
11:02:37 <aemmons> CL: Think we need to respond to their e-mail asking for clarifications
11:04:35 <aemmons> ACTION: Aemmons to write JSR 287 EG and ask for clarification
11:04:35 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2011 - Write JSR 287 EG and ask for clarification [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-05-20].
11:05:17 <aemmons> Topic: Path normalization close command
11:05:25 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0015.html
11:05:42 <aemmons> ED: Discussed this in previous telcon
11:06:23 <aemmons> CL: Saw a concern that if path added an extra line it would affect interpolation of path data because there is an extra segment
11:06:51 <aemmons> DS: Also affects semantics of it. Script trying to detect if something was a closed path might have more difficulty
11:07:30 <aemmons> ED: I wasn't saying you remove the close command, but close command interpreted as a lineTo
11:07:47 <aemmons> DS: I think adding a 'z' is enough
11:08:06 <aemmons> ED: Yes, the spec says if the end path is not the same as the start, you do a lineTo the start
11:08:13 <aemmons> ED: But am fine either way
11:08:25 <aemmons> ED: No string opinion
11:08:34 <aemmons> s/string/strong/
11:08:51 <aemmons> CL: Would like to see what implementations do
11:09:13 <aemmons> CL: Would like to see a test. One with implicit close one without
11:09:24 <aemmons> CL: Investigate a bit what implementations do
11:10:18 <aemmons> DS: What implementations do we expect to test?
11:10:33 <aemmons> CL: is the normalization aspect part of 1.1?
11:11:05 <aemmons> ED: Partly, it says these are the allowed commands but does not mandate how it is done
11:11:38 <aemmons> CL: It is now a problem because now we have internal normilization exposed ( what is in the DOM )
11:12:40 <aemmons> CL: 1.2 Tiny implementations but worth it to investigate 1.1 as well, the interpolation aspect at least
11:13:01 <aemmons> DS: I ask because I do not use these as an author ( Path DOM ) for 1.1
11:13:45 <aemmons> CL: Test 2 paths, see if they interpolate, no DOM used there
11:14:09 <aemmons> CL: Separately, another which has a path and then uses DOM to display segments
11:14:34 <aemmons> DS: Might be best to simply specify something and notify implementations.
11:14:50 <aemmons> DS: If we're finding this now, seems like a minor issue
11:15:14 <aemmons> CL: I don't think so.
11:15:29 <aemmons> CL: Certainly worth testing the interpolation with 1.1
11:17:17 <aemmons> ACTION: Andreas to create two tests for normalizing 'z'. One with interpolation with 1.1, another with path DOM. Note one exists already for 1.2 DOM
11:17:18 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2012 - Create two tests for normalizing 'z'. One with interpolation with 1.1, another with path DOM. Note one exists already for 1.2 DOM [on Andreas Neumann - due 2008-05-20].
11:19:26 <aemmons> RESOLUTION: We will investigate quickly the issues, hopefully by the F2F meeting
11:19:58 <aemmons> Topic: Initial response for font-style issue
11:20:00 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Apr/0070.html
11:21:00 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0033.html
11:23:53 <aemmons> ED: Cameron suggests fixing our free font to have an italic version
11:24:01 <aemmons> CL: Sure, font exists, we could use it
11:24:29 <aemmons> CL: All doesn't mean it guarentees it has bold/italic, it means it's really not telling you what it has
11:25:21 <aemmons> CL: A agree, having italic as well would be good, and font-style. But those are specific responses to the test
11:25:50 <aemmons> AE: IN other words, there needsw to still be some clarification
11:26:02 <aemmons> CL: I don't mind responding
11:26:31 <aemmons> ACTION: Chris to respond to Kalle regarding font-style issue
11:26:32 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2013 - Respond to Kalle regarding font-style issue [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-05-20].
11:27:01 <aemmons> Topic: Font-family selection
11:27:06 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Apr/0069.html
11:27:53 <aemmons> CL: Again, requires some possible clarification in the spec. 
11:28:13 <aemmons> CL: I strated to look at this and collect the relevant pieces.
11:29:04 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#aname
11:29:29 <ChrisL> A full font name would be Helvetica-BoldItalic
11:29:37 <ChrisL> a font family name would be helvetica
11:29:52 <aemmons> CL: A lot of Adobe tools get this wrong
11:30:49 <ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/fonts.html#FontFaceNameElement doesn't really say anything about what it is
11:32:00 <aemmons> ACTION: Chris to review font-family selection e-mail, bring issues back to the group for discussion
11:32:00 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2014 - Review font-family selection e-mail, bring issues back to the group for discussion [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-05-20].
11:32:30 <ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/fonts.html#FontFaceSrcElement compare to http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/fonts.html#FontFaceSrcElement :)
11:33:30 <aemmons> ED: SVG 1.2 has a better definition
11:36:21 <aemmons> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/products/13
11:39:39 <aemmons> ISSUE-272
11:39:41 <aemmons> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/272
11:42:13 <Zakim> restarting in 5 minutes to recover bridge state
11:42:13 <aemmons> ACTION: Aemmons to make suggested changes discussed in issue-272
11:42:13 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2015 - Make suggested changes discussed in issue-272 [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-05-20].
11:42:28 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/334
11:42:35 <aemmons> TOPIC: Issue-334
11:42:37 <aemmons> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/334
11:42:52 <aemmons> ED: Agree, would be nice to have some combined tests ( scripting/animation )
11:43:34 <aemmons> ACTION: Anthony to create test with both animation and scripting
11:43:34 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2016 - Create test with both animation and scripting [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-05-20].
11:44:51 <ChrisL> eg an animation from red to yellow, half way through a script changes red to blue on the element so the animation now goes from glue to yellow
11:45:02 <ChrisL> s/glue/blue/
11:45:36 <aemmons> Topic: ISSUE-337
11:45:38 <aemmons> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/337
11:45:38 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/337
11:46:37 <aemmons> ACTION: CHange test as discussed in issue-337
11:46:37 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - CHange
11:46:47 <aemmons> ACTION: Aemmons to CHange test as discussed in issue-337
11:46:47 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2017 - CHange test as discussed in issue-337 [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-05-20].
11:48:47 <aemmons> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage
11:50:09 <Zakim> zakim-bot restarting in 1 minute
11:53:04 <aemmons> Topic: Libre graphics
11:53:05 <ChrisL> http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2008/index.php?lang=en&action=program
11:53:14 <aemmons> CL: Conference in Poland
11:53:32 <aemmons> CL: Had a talk on SVG
11:53:49 <aemmons> CL: Much of useful stuff. A lot of Inkscape guys
11:54:04 <aemmons> CL: Talked to the implementer of filters
11:54:11 <shepazu> s/Poland/Wrocław/
11:54:19 <aemmons> CL: Designer there with a demo of Inkscape
11:54:26 <shepazu> s/Poland/Wrocław, Poland/
11:54:27 <aemmons> CL: Mostly developers on opensource projects
11:54:37 <aemmons> CL: Everyone is using SVG
11:54:43 <shepazu> s/Wrocław/Wrocław, Poland/
11:54:48 <aemmons> CL: Was useful being there to give answers
11:55:16 <aemmons> CL: Interesting presentation - designers who showed how they work with free software
11:55:27 <aemmons> CL: Inkscape, scribous. SVG as common exchange format
11:55:35 <aemmons> CL: SVG generated by databases via script
11:55:43 <shepazu> s/scribous/Scribus/
11:55:43 <aemmons> CL: Eventualy target CYMK print
11:56:00 <aemmons> CL: Using flowing text feature
11:56:23 <aemmons> CL: Both are interested in support for ICC color and SVG Print
11:57:20 <aemmons> CL: Talk on WebFonts - interesting but used to giving the talk to designers
11:57:28 <aemmons> CL: Demoed video fonts in Raindow
11:57:43 <aemmons> CL: Showed BitFlash with video tests from testsuite
11:57:54 <aemmons> CL: A lot of questions about 1.2
11:57:58 <aemmons> CL: Not just a mobile spec
11:58:25 <aemmons> CL: Explained module architecture
11:58:35 <aemmons> CL: They are excited about vector Effects
11:58:42 <aemmons> CL: Promoted SVG IG
11:59:00 <aemmons> CL: Got interviewed by designers who are interested in 'process'
11:59:10 <aemmons> CL: Go out as a podcast
11:59:49 <aemmons> CL: Said W3C has way to involve Engineers, Managers and Lawyers. Working on Designers
12:00:05 <aemmons> CL: Getting dialogue, etc
12:01:05 <aemmons> CL: I spoke with Liam, talking about XSL and SVG to work closely
12:01:20 <aemmons> CL: Want to know how to do padding which is not rectangular
12:01:53 <aemmons> CL: Going to propose somehting to the XSL group
12:02:15 <aemmons> CL: It was very productive
12:02:22 <aemmons> CL: Totally free conference
12:02:28 <ChrisL> http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2008/index.php?lang=en
12:02:46 <ChrisL> http://pledgie.com/campaigns/613
12:05:47 <anthony> rrsagent, make minutes
12:05:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html anthony