See also: IRC log
<scribe> Scribe: Jan
JB: We have two guests Phillipe and Geoff
JA: I'm joining from a line at the airport
JR: Let's just wait for regrets
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0047.html
JA: Just wanted to see if Philipe
and Geoff read it...
... Are things covered etc.
PLH: Looked like a good starting point
GF: Has summary that JA
sent
... Might be able to give more info in response to
questions
... Info is summary looks good - covers most accessibility
things
JA: PLH had brought up a bunch of things last week - having to do with native browser rendering of videos
GF: So yes certainly need
stop/start/play need also controls for various tracks,:
captions, foreeign langs, subtitles, signing video tracks
etc
... Plsayers should be able to identify tracks and turn them on
and off
PLH: 3 points wondering last
time:
... (1) regarding identification of tracks and language...how
far do we need to go
... e.g. metadata seems to be missing on whether a track is an
audio description
GF: In terms of captionning in
QT, QT will put metadata on text tracks, then author could
rename it a "caption" track
... Then in QT could creat control that looks for it
... In SMIL could do the same thing
JR: Is there controlled vocabulary?
GF: IN QT example, there is no
controlled vocab...my sprite looks for what I call my
track
... In SMIL there are test attributes
JR: Test attributes?
GF: Test attributes: system_captions, system_audiodesc
JR: Still not controleled vocab for extended desc ?
GF: Righ...done differently for
extended audio desc, then ASL is just another video track
... In SMIL filee define video regions eg. in area one main
video, ASL in another region
JR: How to flow in user control?
GF: SMIL players don't supply
user control.
... e.g. growing the captions
... But author could do that - eg. button could do it
JR: So that hits issue on the head ...UAAG is about flowing user reqs
<judy> dick bulterman
<plh> Dick Bulterman (CWI)
GF: Could ask...Dick Bulterman -
SMIL lead
... The WG is working in Venice in a few weeks
PHL: 2 main points
... In HTML5 video element - and doc says it is up to user
agent to provide captionning...
... So where will these be displayed?
... Overlay on video or next to it.
... Need to provide info back to HTMLWG since they don't think
they will be be reflowing
GF: Right so could but them on
top as layer or beside causing reflow
... No clear version is better
... Personally like it over but can be hard to read
... Can compromise with translkucent bckgrounds
... But some people say too much video is blocked
KF: You described techniques but
shouldnt' user agent allow user to control what is right for
them
... Do you feel that user agents will have enough info allow
that conterol
GF: would be great if they could but can't think of where this is done
JR: Brings up ATRC projects that have done this but needs controlled vocab
JA: OK also what about resize the video window (magnify)
GF: Can do that now - keyboard
shortcuts now to recale player and it scales text
... So that's not a problem
PHL: My last question even more
open - difference between functionalities avaialble from User
Agent and available to Author
... Javascript access to video
... Some things likely would be accessible by author and some
by UA
... ex. of captions enable/disable should author have this
control?
GF: Would say yes....maybe author wants to have more control over the look of the player - maybe even a different skin etc
JA: I think being able to skin buttons etc a good idea, but larger control in browser is problematic - eg forget to label a button
GF: Can think of only 1 example
of player that come with built in control (in Real Player
caption controls are buried)
... Can prob think of devs that would be held to a design
... Others might be for it
JA: SIMM guidelines or just ours?
GF: Def yours, then talk to Dick
JA: You've also done work with Flash like things
GF: No standard Flash
player
... DFXP is just a text format that is in dev at W3C
... Flash and DFXP, DFXP is being used to create captions for
Flash
... We created a template and player that allows flash to be
produced that can be accessible on our player
JA: What is DFXP
GF: Just a text format like Real
Text
... Supposed to be neutral
... With a bunch of styling and timing information
... NCAM's CCPlayer is just one of those players
JA: ALso last time we discussed interaction areas...eg an area might be a link,,,jumping interactive things
GF: Alsready possible to put
URL's in captions
... Is it keyboardable?
... No
... Certainly no in any plugin
... Haven't seen it in players
JB: Want to make sure we get this
into existing draft
... Maybe just a big placeholder note
GF: Off the top of my head, if
keyboard command to move focus to player...
... could pause video then move around
JR: Points towards more active UA role, eg extract to list of links
GF: Right, that might be more readily acheivable
PHL: Would like to follow up of DFSP
DFXP
JB: In terms of how to get this into drat
JR: Think draft covers this intrinisically dso maybe just notes
<judy> JR: we could say something like "the WG does intend this to apply to..."
KF: Maybe we need to be more explicit...WG intends to publish more excplicit requirements in video and interactive animation space
JB: I would support KF's approach
KF, JB: We appreciate this conversation and hope you can return when relevant
JB: Would really help coordinate
things
... And maybe could talk about issues such as why 2 captionning
formats
... So W3C can get rationale for this out there
GF: Talking about DFXP and SMIL text?
JB: Yes
... Maybe PHL and I can brainstorm this a bit
<scribe> ACTION: KF to To draft some placeholder text for UAAG2 first draft to ensure it is clear we will be dealing with video and multimedia [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-ua-minutes.html#action01]
JB: KF you're read all the way through?
KF: Going through a third time. Getting to picky comments
JB: Skimmed....seems more than
adequate for first working draft
... Notice Acknowledgments out of date
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2008/WD-UAAG20-20080220/WD-UAAG20-20080220.html
JA: So big chunks are from UAAG1
JB: Yes need it updated
... Maybe change header to "Participants active in the UAWG
leading up to time of publication"
... Also add in Judy
JR: Also...there is: "Other previously active UAWG participants and other contributors to UAAG 2.0"
JB: Maybe "Active or Recently Active" as first one...
JA: WHat about Geoff and Phillippe
JB: Would need to ask their
permission
... So Kathy, Peter, Dave P, maybe Geoff, maybe Phillipe to
"Other previously active UAWG participants and other
contributors to UAAG 2.0:"
... Other than that any objections?
KF: Maybe a bit rough at CSUN
JB: Would really like it up
before Thursday next week and also before AC in April
... First draft can be rough
KF: For my perspecivtive I'm ok to go
JA: Me too
JR: OK
JB: Aim for Wednesday, but also dependent on Shawn, Judy, Jules
JR: OK
KF: Must get off call in 2 mins
JB Thinks there is additional work on it
JB: So propose a placeholder for this draft
<scribe> ACTION: JR to Write draft placeholder on keyboard issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-ua-minutes.html#action02]
JB: Feel that this area can cause weird breakdowns of understanding\
KF: Thinks disconnect is that people affected see the need SO clearly
JA: So should we put in what we have so far?
JB: Let's put in placeholder
text
... With latest version...took chrome out of it....
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0052.html
JA: I keep thinking there are
like 4 things we need to do...
... Seems muddled at the moment
JB: Education for me in
TEITAC...there are lots of other aspects of this
... Things are broken off and put elsewhere
... e.g. documentation section etc
... I think its so complicated we need to take some time to
think this over
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/SMAIL/SMIL/ Found Scribe: Jan Inferring ScribeNick: Jan Default Present: Jan, Philippe, Judy, +1.617.300.aaaa, Geoff, Jim, kford Present: Jan Philippe Judy +1.617.300.aaaa Geoff Jim kford Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0054.html Got date from IRC log name: 06 Mar 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-ua-minutes.html People with action items: jr kf WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]