18:42:26 RRSAgent has joined #ua 18:42:26 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-ua-irc 18:42:46 Zakim, this will be UAWG 18:42:46 ok, Jan; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start 42 minutes ago 18:43:02 Meeting: WAI UA 18:43:18 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0054.html 18:43:25 Chair: Jim Allan 18:43:28 Scribe: Jan 18:58:26 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 18:58:33 +??P1 18:58:42 zakim, ??P1 is really Jan 18:58:42 +Jan; got it 19:00:30 plh has joined #ua 19:01:04 +Philippe 19:01:55 +Judy 19:03:02 + +1.617.300.aaaa - is perhaps WGBH? 19:03:29 judy has joined #ua 19:03:40 zakim, aaaa is Geoff 19:03:40 sorry, plh, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' 19:03:56 zakim, WGBH? is really Geoff 19:03:56 +Geoff; got it 19:04:25 + +1.512.233.aabb 19:04:51 zakim, +1.512.233.aabb is really Jim 19:04:51 +Jim; got it 19:05:53 zakim, who's here 19:05:53 judy, you need to end that query with '?' 19:05:56 zakim, who's here? 19:05:56 On the phone I see Jan, Philippe, Judy, Geoff, Jim 19:05:57 On IRC I see judy, plh, RRSAgent, Zakim, Jan 19:06:02 JB: We have two guests Phillipe and Geoff 19:06:17 JA: I'm joining from a line at the airport 19:07:08 Topic: Meeting during CSUN? 19:07:17 JR: Let's just wait for regrets 19:07:26 Topic: Video Accessibility and UAAG2 - round 2 19:07:40 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0047.html 19:07:53 JA: Just wanted to see if Philipe and Geoff read it... 19:07:59 JA: Are things covered etc. 19:08:40 PLH: Looked like a good starting point 19:08:49 GF: Has summary that JA sent 19:09:03 GF: Might be able to give more info in response to questions 19:09:17 GF: Info is summary looks good - covers most accessibility things 19:10:03 JA: PLH had brought up a bunch of things last week - having to do with native browser rendering of videos 19:10:48 GF: So yes certainly need stop/start/play need also controls for various tracks,: captions, foreeign langs, subtitles, signing video tracks etc 19:10:49 q+ 19:11:08 +[Microsoft] 19:11:14 GF: Plsayers should be able to identify tracks and turn them on and off 19:11:28 zakim, [Microsoft] is really kford 19:11:28 +kford; got it 19:11:41 PLH: 3 points wondering last time: 19:11:58 PLH: (1) regarding identification of tracks and language...how far do we need to go 19:12:32 PLH: e.g. metadata seems to be missing on whether a track is an audio description 19:13:12 GF: In terms of captionning in QT, QT will put metadata on text tracks, then author could rename it a "caption" track 19:13:26 GF: Then in QT could creat control that looks for it 19:13:39 GF: In SMIL could do the same thing 19:14:02 JR: Is there controlled vocabulary? 19:14:27 GF: IN QT example, there is no controlled vocab...my sprite looks for what I call my track 19:14:42 GF: In SMIL there are test attributes 19:14:47 JR: Test attributes? 19:15:28 GF: Test attributes: system_captions, system_audiodesc 19:15:53 JR: Still not controleled vocab for extended desc ? 19:16:35 GF: Righ...done differently for extended audio desc, then ASL is just another video track 19:17:21 GF: In SMAIL filee define video regions eg. in area one main video, ASL in another region 19:17:49 s/SMAIL/SMIL/ 19:18:21 JR: How to flow in user control? 19:18:31 GF: SMIL players don't supply user control. 19:18:43 GF: e.g. growing the captions 19:19:07 GF: But author could do that - eg. button could do it 19:20:05 JR: So that hits issue on the head ...UAAG is about flowing user reqs 19:20:21 dick bulterman 19:20:25 Dick Bulterman (CWI) 19:20:26 GF: Could ask...Dick Bulterman - SMIL lead 19:20:41 GF: The WG is working in Venice in a few weeks 19:20:49 PHL: 2 main points 19:21:21 PHL: In HTML5 video element - and doc says it is up to user agent to provide captionning... 19:21:29 PHL: So where will these be displayed? 19:21:40 PHL: Overlay on video or next to it. 19:22:01 PHL: Need to provide info back to HTMLWG since they don't think they will be be reflowing 19:22:24 GF: Right so could but them on top as layer or beside causing reflow 19:22:32 GF: No clear version is better 19:22:44 GF: Personally like it over but can be hard to read 19:23:01 GF: Can compromise with translkucent bckgrounds 19:23:16 GF: But some people say too much video is blocked 19:23:39 KF: You described techniques but shouldnt' user agent allow user to control what is right for them 19:23:56 KF: Do you feel that user agents will have enough info allow that conterol 19:24:18 GF: would be great if they could but can't think of where this is done 19:25:26 JR: Brings up ATRC projects that have done this but needs controlled vocab 19:25:41 JA: OK also what about resize the video window (magnify) 19:26:04 GF: Can do that now - keyboard shortcuts now to recale player and it scales text 19:26:11 GF: So that's not a problem 19:27:01 PHL: My last question even more open - difference between functionalities avaialble from User Agent and available to Author 19:27:22 PHL: Javascript access to video 19:27:51 PHL: Some things likely would be accessible by author and some by UA 19:28:26 PHL: ex. of captions enable/disable should author have this control? 19:28:57 GF: Would say yes....maybe author wants to have more control over the look of the player - maybe even a different skin etc 19:29:53 JA: I think being able to skin buttons etc a good idea, but larger control in browser is problematic - eg forget to label a button 19:30:25 GF: Can think of only 1 example of player that come with built in control (in Real Player caption controls are buried) 19:30:48 GF: Can prob think of devs that would be held to a design 19:30:57 GF: Others might be for it 19:31:14 JA: SIMM guidelines or just ours? 19:31:22 GF: Def yours, then talk to Dick 19:31:39 JA: You've also done work with Flash like things 19:31:50 GF: No standard Flash player 19:32:14 GF: DFXP is just a text format that is in dev at W3C 19:32:32 GF: Flash and DFXP, DFXP is being used to create captions for Flash 19:33:06 GF: We created a template and player that allows flash to be produced that can be accessible on our player 19:33:28 JA: What is DFXP 19:33:37 GF: Just a text format like Real Text 19:33:46 GF: Supposed to be neutral 19:34:03 GF: With a bunch of styling and timing information 19:34:19 GF: NCAM's CCPlayer is just one of those players 19:34:55 JA: ALso last time we discussed interaction areas...eg an area might be a link,,,jumping interactive things 19:35:13 GF: Alsready possible to put URL's in captions 19:35:30 GF: Is it keyboardable? 19:35:32 GF: No 19:35:44 GF: Certainly no in any plugin 19:35:51 GF: Haven't seen it in players 19:36:19 JB: Want to make sure we get this into existing draft 19:36:33 JB: Maybe just a big placeholder note 19:36:48 -Jim 19:37:00 GF: Off the top of my head, if keyboard command to move focus to player... 19:37:40 GF: could pause video then move around 19:38:24 JR: Points towards more active UA role, eg extract to list of links 19:38:34 GF: Right, that might be more readily acheivable 19:38:49 PHL: Would like to follow up of DFSP 19:38:58 DFXP 19:39:11 JB: In terms of how to get this into drat 19:40:34 JR: Think draft covers this intrinisically dso maybe just notes 19:40:37 JR: we could say something like "the WG does intend this to apply to..." 19:41:12 KF: Maybe we need to be more explicit...WG intends to publish more excplicit requirements in video and interactive animation space 19:41:21 JB: I would support KF's approach 19:42:06 KF, JB: We appreciate this conversation and hope you can return when relevant 19:42:30 JB: Would really help coordinate things 19:42:52 JB: And maybe could talk about issues such as why 2 captionning formats 19:43:09 JB: So W3C can get rationale for this out there 19:43:41 GF: Talking about DFXP and SMIL text? 19:43:45 JB: Yes 19:44:07 JB: Maybe PHL and I can brainstorm this a bit 19:45:13 Action KF: To draft some placeholder text for UAAG2 first draft to ensure it is clear we will be dealing with video and multimedia 19:46:02 -Geoff 19:46:06 +Jim 19:46:08 -Philippe 19:46:20 Topic: When is UAAG2 ready for 1st public working draft? 19:46:47 JB: KF you're read all the way through? 19:47:00 KF: Going through a third time. Getting to picky comments 19:47:23 JB: Skimmed....seems more than adequate for first working draft 19:47:39 JB: Notice Acknowledgments out of date 19:47:49 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2008/WD-UAAG20-20080220/WD-UAAG20-20080220.html 19:48:35 JA: So big chunks are from UAAG1 19:48:47 JB: Yes need it updated 19:49:23 JB: Maybe change header to "Participants active in the UAWG leading up to time of publication" 19:49:28 JB: Also add in Judy 19:50:16 JR: Also...there is: "Other previously active UAWG participants and other contributors to UAAG 2.0" 19:50:36 JB: Maybe "Active or Recently Active" as first one... 19:50:53 JA: WHat about Geoff and Phillippe 19:51:02 JB: Would need to ask their permission 19:51:42 JB: So Kathy, Peter, Dave P, maybe Geoff, maybe Phillipe to "Other previously active UAWG participants and other contributors to UAAG 2.0:" 19:52:29 JB: Other than that any objections? 19:53:22 KF: Maybe a bit rough at CSUN 19:53:44 JB: Would really like it up before Thursday next week and also before AC in April 19:53:55 JB: First draft can be rough 19:54:18 KF: For my perspecivtive I'm ok to go 19:54:21 JA: Me too 19:54:25 JR: OK 19:57:19 JB: Aim for Wednesday, but also dependent on Shawn, Judy, Jules 19:57:22 JR: OK 19:57:51 KF: Must get off call in 2 mins 19:58:03 JB Thinks there is additional work on it 19:58:29 JB: So propose a placeholder for this draft 19:58:52 Action JR: Write draft placeholder on keyboard issue 19:59:23 JB: Feel that this area can cause weird breakdowns of understanding\ 19:59:41 plh has left #ua 20:00:25 KF: Thinks disconnect is that people affected see the need SO clearly 20:00:47 -kford 20:01:11 JA: So should we put in what we have so far? 20:01:23 JB: Let's put in placeholder text 20:02:07 JB: With latest version...took chrome out of it.... 20:05:41 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0052.html 20:05:58 JA: I keep thinking there are like 4 things we need to do... 20:06:48 JA: Seems muddled at the moment 20:07:12 JB: Education for me in TEITAC...there are lots of other aspects of this 20:07:28 JB: Things are broken off and put elsewhere 20:07:38 JB: e.g. documentation section etc 20:08:34 JB: I think its so complicated we need to take some time to think this over 20:21:23 -Judy 20:21:24 -Jan 20:21:27 -Jim 20:21:28 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 20:21:30 Attendees were Jan, Philippe, Judy, +1.617.300.aaaa, Geoff, Jim, kford 20:21:51 RRSAgent, make minutes 20:21:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-ua-minutes.html Jan 20:21:56 RRSAgent, set logs public 20:22:01 Zakim, bye 20:22:01 Zakim has left #ua 20:22:06 RRSAgent, bye 20:22:06 I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-ua-actions.rdf : 20:22:06 ACTION: KF to To draft some placeholder text for UAAG2 first draft to ensure it is clear we will be dealing with video and multimedia [1] 20:22:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-ua-irc#T19-45-13 20:22:06 ACTION: JR to Write draft placeholder on keyboard issue [2] 20:22:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-ua-irc#T19-58-52