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<IanH> I just pinged Bijan and he will be joining shortly.
my ontology talk http://ashby.csail.mit.edu/presentations/Interontology08.ppt
<scribe> Agenda: Next steps for Primer
2) Overview ideas from Elisa
3) Reference Material / Evan
4) Cookbook?
waiting for you to reconnect, peter
<IanH> Remember the reset button on early apples?
<bijan> +1 (am working toward that)
<pfps> earlier would be better
<ewallace> +1
<IanH> +1 sounds good
+1
<Elisa> +1 for me -1 for Deb
previous vote was whether to aim for FPWD of primer for next heartbeat
Deb: Worried about Overview
happening
... Wants to couple 2 in order to make sure it does
<bijan> There will be other opportunities to object, even tactically
<bijan> But there's no promises that the wg will endorse an overview!
Alan: We are committed to
overview, but blocking one for the other is not a good
argument.
... Doesn't hear objection from deb about primer per se.
<Elisa> The concern is that an overview/quickstart document is really needed by some of her customers, and that the primer alone doesn't provide this functionality
Alan: General sense is that Primer should move forward
<Elisa> The idea would be to make sure that this kind of document is addressed by the WG
Bijan asks what how to decide which materials in the wg, which not
asks elisa to respond
We should discuss that
Elisa: Document saying why you care, quick links, here's where to go if you want a deeper dive
<ewallace> Is there anything new to this discussion?
<bijan> ewallace, perhaps not, but I still don't know what the terms of debate are
<bijan> (rather, the evaluation criteria)
2) Overview
<pfps> so what is the end-status for the primer?
aim for FPWD, unencumbered
overview: relatively short
very short description of language at front. Document roadmap (2-3 sentences) if you need x go to document y
Decsription of what kind of application people are working on . What it's good for.
Summary of what's new.
Feature summary like before. Each feature with a link.
very short summary and links in to other documents.
quick on a link and go.
like card for programming language.
crib sheet.
<Zakim> alanr, you wanted to respond to Bijan as well and to
<bijan> There's a semantic web reference card: http://ebiquity.umbc.edu/_file_directory_/resources/94.pdf
<bijan> I have no idea how much its used
Alan: Sees two audiences given Elisa's description. Risks same problem as before. Would be better if it was one audience and tight.
Elisa: Maybe stuff about applications is separate. Perhaps mush of what Elisa wants with quick start and What Deb wants.
Alan: Perhaps two points of view re: "Language Features" - vocabulary centered view versus function centered view.
one reason we had to direct to the "right" document before is that they weren't factored well, IMO
Elisa: Different sets of tags to run in to same set of documents.
<bijan> That was on the proposal as well
<bijan> no links
<pfps> I though that short was the basic idea here
Elisa: Semantic web reference card, not quite right. Too short for what she was looking for.
<bijan> Conrad spoke very highly of : http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/#appC
<bijan> whcih seems similar in detail
<bijan> Appendixes B and C
Ian: problem with overview "fell
between two stools" (?) stools = thing to sit on, presumably
;-)
... Likes SW reference card.
Elisa wants one like this that's alive.
<bijan> Look at the link to the section of the reference
<bijan> See: http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/#appC
Elisa: Maybe more than one.
Ian: Bit too many things at once.
<bijan> I definitely want to mark up the specs so one can extract and rearrange sections in a smart way...so that other folks can create arbitrary versions (instead of us doing every possible variant)
<ewallace> The SW reference card is cool.
Alan: Is typesetting/layout as important?
<IanH> I didn't want to say it wasn't a good effort.
Elisa: Important but not sure what ultimate layout it.
<IanH> But it does try to cover an amazing amount of terrain
Would like to see middle column expanded, 4th with link. 1 to semantics, 1 to mapping etc.
"coupled with quick start"?
ack alanr?
Bijan: Trying to arrange specs so this is even possible.
<Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask what "coupled with quick start"? means
Ian: can see quick reference guides but don't know what this has to do with overview.
Deb
<bijan> What about the intro of the primer?
Deb's audience: People who fund projects who need introductory tests. High level intro to the semantic web and why you care.
Elisa want quick guide.
In the US have trouble getting people to fund these projects because they don't see the need.
In the EU multilingual is more taken, but not here as much. Place where people can grab a couple of paragraphs to justify.
<pfps> do we have a good idea of the totality of what is wanted by Deb?
<bijan> Rec track?
<bijan> -1 to rec track (esp. as a separate document)
<pfps> why rec track?
<IanH> I also wonder why rec track?
<pfps> why separate document?
<Elisa> It needs to have a separate, available, visible link to it - whether or not it's separate.
<ewallace> The quick guide could be an appendix to another of our documents.
<Elisa> It would be fine with me if it isn't rec trak, but is linked on the home page from the documents right up at the top.
<pfps> rec'edness
Bijan: Rec track is heavy/expensive
<bijan> And it burdens future working groups!
Peter agrees.
<bijan> I think we will need some index like thing (and have started on it), but I'm at the moment indifferent to the layout
<pfps> +1 to index - I'm indifferent to whether it is an appendix or something on the home page
Alan: Looking for consensus on content, 1 pager.
<Elisa> I think layout is important and would like to see it be separate & printable on its own.
peter worries about pushback on 1 page displayable anywhere.
<Zakim> alanr, you wanted to point out that print version can have variant.
<bijan> Also might be worth asking Tim Finin on how used the semweb card is
<bijan> I do
<bijan> I'll ask
<bijan> Jim had nothing to do with the card
<Elisa> perhaps he would know whether or not folks are using it, though
<IanH> What about Primer for FPWD -- what are we doing about that?
<ewallace> Should we do a review of the Primer pre-pub?
<pfps> I thought that review is needed - we need to identify reviewers
<bijan> Elisa, perhaps...remember UMBC and UMCP aren't hte same institution :)
<bijan> And Jim's at RPI now ;)
<IanH> bye
<scribe> ACTION: Alan to send note to WG summarizing feeling re: FPWD of Primer. We are going for it [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/03-owl-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-96 - Send note to WG summarizing feeling re: FPWD of Primer. We are going for it [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-03-10].
<scribe> ACTION: Alan to send cookbook proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/03-owl-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-97 - Send cookbook proposal [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-03-10].
<scribe> ACTION: Alan to ask W3C view on "1 page printout?" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/03-owl-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-98 - Ask W3C view on \"1 page printout?\" [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-03-10].
<bijan> ewallace, you still here?
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