19 Feb 2008

See also: IRC log


EricP, Vipul_Kashyap, Don_Doherty, +, Bosse, Holger, Jyotir, Rachel, Helen




<vipul> Zakim aabb is Rachel

<vipul> Zakim ??P38 is Helen

holger_stenzhorn: 3 telecons so far
... been co-developing this ontology in another project
... will develop the examples on the slides
... should have something posted on the wiki in two weeks

Bosse: kersten and i will follow same approach for the 2nd patient

Patient Data in X Ontology

Bosse: i think alan has posted the (ontology?) on the wiki

<vipul> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/rough-discussion-realist-view

holger: this ontology is being developed at the EU Advanced Clinical Genomic Trial
... targeted at urinary tract cancer
... been in dev for 1.5-2 years
... propose Bosse et al to look at this ontology

<holger_stenzhorn> www.ifomis.org/wiki/ACGT

<Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask what the comparitive investment is

holger_stenzhorn: one of the developers in Christian X
... he has been talking with kersten et al
... so there is overlap
... is not developed in a collaborative environment
... we don't know if we *can* develop it

vipul: we haven't chosen an ontology
... none of them have been used in the real world
... we want to see if they work for our use cases
... there are standards out there already: RIM, LTTM
... if we go to the trials folks, we'll be more appealing if it aligns with SDTM

<Helen> +q

holger_stenzhorn: we worked with clinical and biomedical experts
... we extracted the relations with them
... also looked at medra
... trying to fulfill the needs of clinician

vipul: there are two kinds of clinical users:
... .. the folks doing the trials
... .. the docs doing healthcare
... tricky getting these two communities together

Helen: if we put lots of effort into this ont, will i be able to re-use it in X scenarios?

vipul: we target patient recruitment and EMR
... we first need to show something working in this scope
... these are two very different use cases
... if we take up adverse drug detection, we may find that it already works, or that we need to modify it

Helen: so we will examine the 10 use cases and try to use HL7 properties

vipul: while we dev this ontology, we want to keep compatibility between EMR and clinical trials
... you are right, there is always the danger that we will develop artifacts that are use-case-specific
... this ontology will try to model:
... .. book-keeping
... .. clinical trial eligability
... .. patient data

holger_stenzhorn: we have been developing this ont by the clinical trial needs
... we have done extensive studies in cancer research
... have tried to model this from the clinician and the publication side
... want to use the data to manage patients (EDT), but also to model cancer (tumor size, position)

<vipul> CRF, CDASH, NCI Thesaurus

holger_stenzhorn: are clinical partners (CDISC most prominently)
... we are modeling that (CDISC) data in our ontology
... our project partners have created facilities to represent our instance data to CDISC

vipul: Rachel and Jennifer (NIHS) are modeling this data in STDM

<vipul> COI = Clinical Observations Interoperability

holger_stenzhorn: Cristian is already working with Jennifer

<holger_stenzhorn> Cristian Cocos

<scribe> ACTION: holger to invite Cristian Cocos to present at one of these telecons [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-hcls-minutes.html#action01]

vipul: ultimately we want to map this to other types of data

<holger_stenzhorn> ACGT

<scribe> ACTION: holger to get more info on mappins from ACGT to CDISC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-hcls-minutes.html#action02]

Helen: how much to you rely on reasoning?

<holger_stenzhorn> www.eu-acgt.org

Helen: can i enter a patient data and search on some clasification (such as eligibility for a clinical trial)

<vipul> http://www.ifomis.org/acgt/1.0

holger_stenzhorn: this sort of thing is in the project description

<Zakim> ericP, you wanted to note that re-use when possible makes semweb work and to offer to help set up Cristian's presentation

holger_stenzhorn: weill see Christian next week
... expect to next join COI call in two weeks

<holger_stenzhorn> aaah ;-)

RDF Representation of Detailed Clinical Models/Clinical Element Models

<vipul> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=DCMRDFPatient1.ppt

-> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=DCMRDFPatient1.ppt modeled Intermounted Healthcare data

[slide 4]

Helen: is DizzinessAssert a new class in the dcm namespace?

vipul: dcm as a set of types, e.g. Assertion
... they have internal IDs for the codes, but they may them to external standards
... the prob is that SNOMED codes get changed

Rachel: the codes should always be there. they just indicate that it's retired

Helen: if we link to SNOMED, we can always add another arc as new models emerge

vipul: you may retire one code and replace it with several

[... scribe got too involved to scribe effectively]

scribe: they have used this model for change mapping
... but change mapping is outside our scope

[slide 5]

vipul: LOINC has size axise (pl SP?)

-> http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/49/4/624/T2 LOINC major axes

[slide 6]

vipul: they have alligned with HL7, as well as termsets like LOINC
... DCM has a specialized model which i have expressed as RDF

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: holger to get more info on mappins from ACGT to CDISC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-hcls-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: holger to invite Cristian Cocos to present at one of these telecons [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-hcls-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.133 (CVS log)
$Date: 2008/02/19 17:09:11 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Christian/Cristian/
Succeeded: s/join/next join COI call/
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: ericP
Inferring Scribes: ericP
Default Present: EricP, Vipul_Kashyap, Don_Doherty, +, Bosse, Holger, Jyotir, Rachel, Helen
Present: EricP Vipul_Kashyap Don_Doherty + Bosse Holger Jyotir Rachel Helen

WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Got date from IRC log name: 19 Feb 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-hcls-minutes.html
People with action items: holger

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]