W3C

SWD WG

18 Dec 2007

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Quentin, Clay, Tom, Alistair, Ed, Ralph, Sean, Justin, Margherita, Daniel, Diego, Jon
Regrets
Guus, Vit, Simone, Elisa
Chair
Tom
Scribe
Sean

Contents


 

 

ADMIN

Proposed to accept minutes: http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html

Resolved

Next telecon: 8th January 2008

SKOS

Alistair: Hoping to have version of SKOS Reference Editor's Draft for review by end of the week
... first draft of sections on Conceptual Resoruces, Concept Schemes
... Lexical Lables, Documentation properties, semantic relationsips
... still to do a couple of sections.
... ideally first draft by end of the week. Need to hook up with Sean over
... content and rules of thumb.

ACTION: Quentin to review Editor's draft of SKOS Reference [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/20-swd-minutes.html#action02] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Vit to review Editor's draft of SKOS Reference [recorded in ]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/20-swd-minutes.html#action03] [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action02]

SKOS Primer

ACTION: Alistair and Guus write draft section in primer on relationship between SKOS concepts and OWL classes for OWL DL users [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/06-swd-minutes.html#action05] [CONTINUES]

Alistair: Antoine has volunteered to write something for the primer. Alistair has
... said yes please, go ahead and we can decide where it goes later.

Ed: Haven't had a lot of time to dedicate to it. Antoine has been making
... progress. Posting links on wiki as the document unfolds.

<ed> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DraftPrimer

Tom: Fine to use the wiki for drafting docs.
... Projected goal for draft?

Ed: Goal was to have a fair amount for today. Realistically required stable Reference
... Antoine and Ed will hopefully knock out simple stuff this week.

Alistair: Reference as it is (in w3 space) is not an editors draft yet, so could
... potentially change. Please look as early as possible at the content.
... Shout asap if anything doesn't make sense or looks wrong or needs addresssing.

Ed: Thinking about updating core guide to reflect latest stuff rather than recreating new text.
... just change what needs to be changed

Tom: Draft is in w3 space?

Alistair: Drafting reference as HTML document within SWD CVS space.

<aliman> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/master.html -> reference master

Alistair: this is file that's being edited live. Will create copy with datestamped URI
... once the draft is ready. Treat this URI as volatile.

Tom: Can we update deliverables page with links?

Alistair: Not sure about that -- this is pre editors draft stage.

Ralph: What are your concerns?

Alistair: None specific, but general unease

Ralph: If the status is accurate, then it's fine.

Alistair: Ok, says it has no status

Ed: Got the feeling that Antoine would like to do the same with Primer

Tom: Suggest that we keep editing the wiki page called deliverables. Add link to the
... latest one. Then WG participants can pick up the latest versions.

<Ralph> SWD Deliverables Wiki

ISSUE 39

ACTION: Antoine to send a msg proposing a resolution for next week telecon on ISSUE-39 considering Alistair's 3 subtopics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action07] [DONE]

Tom: To decide on this call.

Ralph: Link in minutes refers to specific version (5). Is this right?

Tom: yes.
... Any comments?

<Ralph> A revised proposal for ISSUE-39 ConceptualMappingLinks [CORRECTION] [Antoine 16-Dec]

Alistair: Bit behind. Would be happy accepting the resolution.
... will only get to grips when writing Reference.

<ed> aliman++

Tom: Happy to move forward if we feel this reflects our understanding of the problem.
... accept this as a resolution to ISSUE-39 and come back if necessary.

Alistair: whether or not we take this as a resolution I will take the content as is and try and work
... it into the Reference. If we formally resolve, would be happy to revisit.

Tom: Propose that we resolve not to formally accept this as a solution, but
... resolve that Alistair will write this up in SKOS Reference and we will revisit this after that.

Alistair: Would it be helpful to us to accept the resolution. Issue as it stands is broad "we want conceptual mapping links".
... Later issues will be more specific. May help to resolve the broader issue.

Tom: Like this. Pushed grouping into context and takes a stand on related/overlapping.
... Stake in the ground.
... Would be happy to accept a resolution closing this. But want more
... support for this from the WG!

Ed: I like the sound of closing the issue.

Ralph: No strong opinion either way. Unclear on sub issues.
... Is the expectation that we open a new issue on grouping?

Tom: Good question. To what extent do issues #40 and #45 discuss the grouping constructs

Alistair: If we have a mechanism for "co-ordinating" concepts, that would satisfy some requirements.
... There is some overlap between #40 and grouping constructs. Could use a co-ordination instead of AND.
... Not sure about #45 . Not sure how to model it. Not entirely at the conceptual level.
... It's related, but not sure how overlapping it is. May need to raise another issue. Bit vague....

Ralph: Happy with closing #39 if it's internal and we'll re-raise grouping if appropriate.

Alistair: Original SKOS mapping vocab had AND/OR/NOT. Starting point for recent discussions. Came from
... some practice. There is precedent for doing AND/OR like combinations when mapping.

Tom: In the old mapping vocab. Issue was is mapping sufficient. Could it be simplified.
... do we have a requirement for this?

Marghe: Sent an email to the list to show how grouping relationship has been used.
... realised they used them more that inexact match. But if we use the grouping, then the mapping is only one way
... which limits the mapping to be one way. Bidirectional mapping much more useful.
... Discarding them gives less precision, but provides much more useful mappings.

Tom: Propose that we resolve to accept this but take action to clarify whether the grouping constructs
... issues are being addressed adequately. Would make sense to close this and open more specific.

Alistair: Difficult piece of work. What do you mean when you create mappings?
... How do you process those mappings when doing IR across different indexes? Could translate query
... or translate metadata. Depends on your operational theory of what the query means.

Alistair: Directionality becomes important

<Ralph> The message I believe Margherita was citing: RE: SKOS ISSUE-39: clarification? [Margherita, 11-Dec]

Tom: Should close #39 and do some triage
... decide whether it makes sense for these constructs to be in scope.
... Could distract us and make work more compicated.
... Can someone take an action and decide whether it's in scope.
... Alistair, Tom, Ed in favour

<Ralph> Antoine's proposal

RESOLUTION: Accept Antoine's proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/0083.html as a resolution to ISSUE-39.

<aliman> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/0025.html -> alistair's mail on grouping constructs

Alistair: Wrote mail about grouping constructs
... started out in SKOS mapping with AND, OR and NOT. Only way to give an operational meaning is
... to treat them as query expressions. Then not mapping between concepts but query expressions.
... So first need a notion of a query. Query is out of scope for SKOS. So position I took was to
... see AND, OR and NOT as being out of scope.
... happy to take an action to state problem at higher level. Would also like Margherita to continue
... her work in this area.

Tom: Position makes sense. Question is whether the primer needs to address the issue. Legacy vocab
... with these constructs. If they're not in the CR, do we need a comment or footnote in the Primer? Good to
... have a position on what to do about the issue.
... Drop without comment, or say something?

Ralph: Alistair's mail addresses these issues well.

Tom: But do we need to address this in documents.

Ralph: Would be appropriate to go through all the differences between legacy and LC docs.

Tom: Good to capture the analysis that Alistair's done.

Ralph: What is the extent of things that will be different?
... advantage of mail archive is that emails can be cited.
... Recast question: how do we remember this email message?

ACTION: Ralph to add pointer to Alistair's mail on grouping constructs as a note to resolution of ISSUE-39. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action05]

ACTION: Alistair to propose an approach to clarify which aspects of the extension module should be in scope for the candidate recommendation package. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

Tom: Running out of time. Propose we declare Antoine's action as done, and put ISSUE-36 on the call for Jan 8th.

ACTION: Antoine to send a mail to the list so as to have a discussion on ISSUE-36 and isDefinedBy for next week's telecon [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action09] [DONE]

RESOLUTION: ISSUE-36 on the call for Jan 8th

ACTION: Alistair and Guus to prepare material for next week on Concept Schemes vs OWL Ontologies [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/30-swd-minutes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Ralph to reconstruct proposal for semantics of isDefinedBy [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/30-swd-minutes.html#action02] [DROPPED]

ACTION: Ralph to check whether the common interpretation of rdfs:isDefinedBy fits the reasoning that was made in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0141.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action10]

ACTION: Guus to write up the issue [of Label Resource] and add to the issue list. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]

RDFa

Ed: Haven't seen an updated version

Ralph: No, there's not.
... can't remember the date promised

Ed: Lots of discussion about test cases

Tom: Aim at having reviews of syntax document posted to list by Jan 4th?

Ralph: But no editors draft to review.

<Ralph> 2007-12-13 RDFa telecon minutes (not yet cleaned)

Tom: Ideal schedule was to decide on LC on Jan 8th. If Diego and Ed are to review, post reviews by Jan 4th
... then we take decision on Tuesday

ACTION: Diego to review RDFa syntax document by early January [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action12]

ACTION: Ed to review RDFa syntax document by early January [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action13]

ACTION: Ben and Michael to address comments by Tom [regarding maintenance of wiki document http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa] recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action05] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Ben to prepare draft implementation report for RDFa (with assistance from Michael) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action03] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule in wiki http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]

Recipes

Tom: No change to approve publication

Ed: Good as no time to review.

ACTION: Ralph and Ed to review recipes document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action18] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Dan to ask apache about conditional redirects [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action07] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default behavior" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Ralph to come up with a URI for wiki page [for Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action04] [DONE]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/0057.html

Jon: Editors should include language in Ralph's proposal

ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action03] [CONTINUES]

Vocabulary Management

ACTION: Vit and Elisa to include in the document all the target sections plus an allocation of sections to people and potentially a standard structure for sections [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action07] [CONTINUES]

adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Diego to review RDFa syntax document by early January [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action12]
[NEW] ACTION: Ed to review RDFa syntax document by early January [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action13]
[NEW] ACTION: Ralph to add pointer to Alistair's mail on grouping constructs as a note to resolution of ISSUE-39. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Ralph to check whether the common interpretation of [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action10]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Alistair and Guus to prepare material for next week on Concept Schemes vs OWL Ontologies [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/30-swd-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Alistair and Guus write draft section in primer on relationship between SKOS concepts and OWL classes for OWL DL users [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/06-swd-minutes.html#action05]
[PENDING] ACTION: Alistair to propose an approach to clarify which aspects of the extension module should be in scope for the candidate recommendation package. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action06]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben and Michael to address comments by Tom [regarding maintenance of wiki document http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action05]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to prepare draft implementation report for RDFa (with assistance from Michael) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule in wiki http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Dan to ask apache about conditional redirects [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action07]
[PENDING] ACTION: Guus to write up the issue [of Label Resource] and add to the issue list. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: Quentin to review Editor's draft of SKOS Reference [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/20-swd-minutes.html#action02]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph and Ed to review recipes document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action18]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default behavior" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Vit and Elisa to include in the document all the target sections plus an allocation of sections to people and potentially a standard structure for sections [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action07]
[PENDING] ACTION: Vit to review Editor's draft of SKOS Reference [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/20-swd-minutes.html#action03]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Antoine to send a mail to the list so as to have a discussion on ISSUE-36 and isDefinedBy for next week's telecon [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action09]
[DONE] ACTION: Antoine to send a msg proposing a resolution for next week telecon on ISSUE-39 considering Alistair's 3 subtopics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action07]
[DONE] ACTION: Ralph to come up with a URI for wiki page [for Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action04]
 
[DROPPED] ACTION: Ralph to reconstruct proposal for semantics of isDefinedBy [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/30-swd-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2007/12/20 01:23:45 $