<scribe> Scribe: JR

JA, JR: OK with putting "Until User Agents" stuff on the Wiki

JA, CL: Discussing status of Forms, XForms, ...

JA: Option labels not generally read by Scr Readers

CL: only way to get it from Accessibility API is to get it from the tree
... But not considered an attribute like groupbox would be

JA: So it's animplicit association

C: Tried to get Firefox to establish a "relationship"

CL: "Labeeled by", "Described by"

JA: Easier if more in HTML code?

CL: Not really...until lots of people implement optgroup they won't put in support and vice versa
... So if you're in a given option...don't know what optgroup you're in unless you traverse back up the tree to the parent optgroup
... EVERYTHING in the DOM, just some stuff isn't in the API

JA: Asks about header, ids in tables

CL: If browser implements, then yes
... Inspect32

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=3755582a-a707-460a-bf21-1373316e13f0&displaylang=en

CL: IBM has new tool

http://www.mail-archive.com/accessibility-ia2@lists.linux-foundation.org/msg00042.html

http://www.eclipse.org/actf/

CL: THat's essentially an enhanced version of Inspect32 that includes support for iAccessible2
... Web developers do nothing with APIs...the browser converts markup into accessibility APIs...ATs use them

JR: Asks about WebAPI

JA: Doing communication with OS...

CL: It's about OS tool features
... Browser takes care of mapping to the specific OS
... Kind of like SAPI

<AllanJ> WebAPI - http://www.w3.org/2006/webapi/

JR: WebAPI called by Web developer...
... to call OS functions (e.g. clipboard)

JA: So in UAAG we have "6.10 Timely exchanges through APIs (P2) "

CL: e.g. state of control changes.....state in accessibility API must change ASAP
... ...events needed too because Scr Readers caching the screen and need to know if something has changed

JA: During PF 1.5 hours...

CL: Who's leading - do we need list of questions?

JA: Prob need to prepare...

JR: Question list?

JA: With AJAX lots of functionning that browser doesn't know about - functions, keybindings until event happens.
... Javascript might grab keyd before browser?

CL: Browser still handling no processing
... THere are parsers helping....but browser does run the javascript
... Write to DOM command in Javascript goes via browser

JA: Key binding?

CL: THinks key gets key first?

JA: Access key wins over menus in IE

CL: OK what about keystroke handled by javascript?
... So a QUESTION is how to resolve all the different keybindings.
... AT, OS,...browser...
... Actually OS lets AT get them first...

JR: Sounds like we could be writing guidance to browser about what to do...

CL: Yes - between its chrome, access keys, javascript key events

JR: QUESTION 1: Out of all browser-level and below processes, what kind of guidance can we give.

JA: Event handlers...
... Programmatic exposure may not be enough...

CL: When key comes in Browser doesn't know if the javascript really wants a key

JR: So wuation about viability of activate event handlers?

JA: Another question is about exposing bindings to users who don't have ATs.
... Other big issue - GL6....major concern is out of process APIs are read only
... ARIA folks working on DOM API

CL: User agent issue
... There is a perfomance issue...if you are not in process you have to cross process boundary...
... Quicker if you are in process
... Client-server architecture
... Using COM transport in Windows
... CORBA in Linux
... Complicated by fact that browser's interface is different than AT

JA: Other issue is programmatic notification of changes....and not all changes are in DOM...caret changes, CSS changes

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Change Agenda to set PF-ARIA questions just after lunch on Monday. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/01-ua-minutes.html#action01]

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128  of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: JR
Inferring ScribeNick: JR

WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found.

Default Present: AllanJ, JR, cklaws
Present: AllanJ JR cklaws
Regrets: Kelly_Ford David_Poehlman Peter_Parente Gregory_Rosmaita
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007OctDec/0025.html
Got date from IRC log name: 1 Nov 2007
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/01-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: jr

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.


WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found!  
Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>.

Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of 
new discussion topics or agenda items, such as:
<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report