See also: IRC log
<scribe> Scribe: JR
KF: Can't make it to F2F.
JR: Call in?
KF: Interested
JA: Jan, Jim, Cathy F2F+ maybe
Gregory
... Kelly, Peter on phone + maybe Gregory
... We are making strides on Req
JR: No replies from observers
KF: Action item likely supplanted by new group review of GL2
JA: Agreed
... GR on 2.2
GR: XPROC - maybe way to handle
mashups...
... XML pipeline language...by controlling flow could cue
things up and decide what to accept, not accept
JA: Relation?
GR: Course of last resort being
document source...and Cathy brought up that mashups make this
hard...
... So I was asked to look at this from plain page and compound
page view
CL: Is Rich doing things related to ACCLIP from IMS
GR: Pinged him ..... XPROC has
same namespacing issue as many other languages at the
moment
... XPROC last call ended yesterday
... Defer to Rich on this
<AllanJ> XPROC reference http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xproc-20070920/
CL: Can find out more from Rich
GR: Not light reading, large and
very detailed
... Tomorrow comments on XHTML role are due
... 3 PF request on XHTML Role...
... TITLE missing from list of pre-defined roles
... Other 2....now does not allow for strings of normal
expressions...still seeking consistent way of implementing ARIA
across technologies
... ARIA issue running into name-spacing issues
... On 31st of Oct. Rich will be chairing a call on the name
spacing issue
... Will be a cross group meeting.
JA: Back to TITLE issue...sould that be used to give title to live regions etc?
GR: Right now we are looking at
page titling, but extensible so could be used to title
areas
... It's a reusable way of annotating.
... Problem now is that <title> in <head> filled
with placeholder since it only gets exposed in the chrome
... We want to set a F2F agenda today
GR should be JA
JA: CL thinks we should make some
pre-F2F assignments
... Still mashing through 1-4 but we still have 5-12...
... So think we should go through them and see where gaps and
proposals needed
CL: So where comments are?
JA: Looking at Wiki where we have
UAAG2 Issues
... Ex. GL5 has no issues at the moment
... GL6 is all about APIs
... So I went through and scribbled prelim list...
... So JA=>GL5
... Cathy=>GL6?
CL: OK
<scribe> ACTION: JA to Look at GL5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<scribe> ACTION: CL to Look at GL6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<scribe> ACTION: KF to Look at GL7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action03]
CL: May add some high contrast issue stuff to GL7
<scribe> ACTION: JR to Look at GL8 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<scribe> ACTION: PP to Look at GL9 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action05]
<scribe> ACTION: GR to Look at GL10 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action06]
<scribe> ACTION: JA to Look at GL11 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action07]
<scribe> ACTION: JR to Look at GL12 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action08]
JA: Gap identification AND/OR
proposals
... Also pls send to list
... Tentatively lets just schedule 1.5 hours per
guideline...
... CL has to go a bit early on Tues.
PP: Have some meetings on those days so I'll send my schedule
JA: Some may run over and others go short
JR: F2F 9-17:30 both days
JA: 2,3,4 should get some time too
<scribe> ACTION: JR to Do agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action09]
KF: Confusing...
... Does this still reflect overall intent of what we want UA's
to do?
... Other words, is this what we want it to do or is it missing
something
... My impression is that this is what we want, but maybe
language needs cleanup
JA: So currently conditional
content is hard to get at
... ex. alt
... Then there are fallbacks like noscript
... So this says even if there is a way to get conditional
content
<oedipus> 3.6 needs a bullet to the effect: Allow configuration to allow simultaneous rendering of an image and its long descriptor
<oedipus> rationale: guidance for those with very limited viewport; assistance to those with congnative processing; provides guide through flow of image
JA: Conditional content: defn read by Jim
<AllanJ> JR: primary and secondary content,
<oedipus> FYI HTML WG wiki page: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueAltAttribute
KF: So if multiple versions sent
to browser, browser should show access to all
... Example of flash app
GR: HTML working group has been discussing use cases where all cases are avaialble
JA: So is the problem just the language?
<oedipus> FYI HTML WG Wiki page: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ABetterAlt
CL: Don't think this lang requires access to all...e.g. C in place of D
KF: I think for end user we want ALL.
<oedipus> Image Equivalent Content - contains a lot of discussion of issues we are currently discussing in this telecon: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/LongdescRetention
JR: How would this look/sound?
KF: User agent might ... kind of like stylesheet...
CL: So settings...
FK: eg. I'd like this or this or both of these.
CL: Key could switcvh...
KF: e.g. image toggle
... Browser knows about what it detects
CL: Not technically impossible
KF: Users would play with it a bit
JA: So users wouldn't have to query
KF: Screen readers already do
this.
... If you turn things off they can handle it
CL: So maybe "Doing More"
GR: ARIA could be used
KF: I think I have an idea of what people are looking for...I will rewrite
<scribe> ACTION: KF to New rewording of 2.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action10]
<AllanJ> JR: user should be able to define things by modality, give me flash, but have a key to render text if available...
<AllanJ> ...configure for permanant swaps for content, but allow swapping on demand
JA: Other things...2.4...
JA: Thought there may be some
AJAX issue...
... Think I am ok with this
... Live regions come into play so much - not sure we need to
do anything here
CL: Will put link in IRC from Aaron Leventhal on issues
<cklaws> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/AJAX:WAI_ARIA_Live_Regions/API_Support
JA: Somewhere we need to have user override of "politeness"
GR: Very analagous to CSS "importance"
<scribe> ACTION: JA to Proposal on user override o author defined "politeness" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action11]
KF: But web techs are pushing
envelope on what UA can know about...
... Maybe we need add a section on this content taking over UA
roles
<oedipus> XProc: An XML Pipeline Language - http://www.w3.org/TR/xproc/ (LC closed yesterday)
JA: Sounds good
JR: Yes
GR: OK
... Trying to harmonize with HTML5 too...
... HTML5 has lots of UA guidance
... HTML5 will also have an authoring tool section
JA: We continue to have AJAX discussion and I've expressed some of these concerns to PF...it's certainly something we can put in the introduction...plus I'd like to get it into the guidelines
CL: With new events, live regions etc. we'll need to discuss in doc.
GR: PF asking HTML5 to use ARIA
model
... But may break certain XML based implementations
... ARAI will be TR long before HMTL5
CL: ANd there is ARIA support in Firefox
GR: ANd Opera
... Am doing some QA on PF's ARIA examples
JA: We have many audio/video things scattered about....
<oedipus> GJR notes that he now has CVS access so can (after TPAC) mount the "until user agent..." page and the "UA Support" pages to be updated as we discussed in august
JA: This is another area where we can bogged down...maybe we can pull them out
<AllanJ> JR: media is similar to Web 2.0 stuff, the browser does not know about the content and functionality...
KF: In some degree language reflective of time 1.0 was written
<AllanJ> e.g. using scripting and divs etc. to create a slider
KF: On one call we talked out
thinking about other user agents
... Needs to stay...
... Maybe there are ways to clean them up.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128 of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: JR Inferring ScribeNick: JR Default Present: Gregory_Rosmaita, AllanJ, JR, pparente, Cathy_Laws, kford Present: Gregory_Rosmaita AllanJ JR pparente Cathy_Laws kford WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 25 Oct 2007 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html People with action items: cl gr ja jr kf pp WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]