W3C

- DRAFT -

SV_MEETING_TITLE

25 Oct 2007

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Gregory_Rosmaita, AllanJ, JR, pparente, Cathy_Laws, kford
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
JR

Contents


 

 

<scribe> Scribe: JR

F2F

KF: Can't make it to F2F.

JR: Call in?

KF: Interested

JA: Jan, Jim, Cathy F2F+ maybe Gregory
... Kelly, Peter on phone + maybe Gregory
... We are making strides on Req

JR: No replies from observers

1. review action items

KF: Action item likely supplanted by new group review of GL2

JA: Agreed
... GR on 2.2

GR: XPROC - maybe way to handle mashups...
... XML pipeline language...by controlling flow could cue things up and decide what to accept, not accept

JA: Relation?

GR: Course of last resort being document source...and Cathy brought up that mashups make this hard...
... So I was asked to look at this from plain page and compound page view

CL: Is Rich doing things related to ACCLIP from IMS

GR: Pinged him ..... XPROC has same namespacing issue as many other languages at the moment
... XPROC last call ended yesterday
... Defer to Rich on this

<AllanJ> XPROC reference http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xproc-20070920/

CL: Can find out more from Rich

GR: Not light reading, large and very detailed
... Tomorrow comments on XHTML role are due
... 3 PF request on XHTML Role...
... TITLE missing from list of pre-defined roles
... Other 2....now does not allow for strings of normal expressions...still seeking consistent way of implementing ARIA across technologies
... ARIA issue running into name-spacing issues
... On 31st of Oct. Rich will be chairing a call on the name spacing issue
... Will be a cross group meeting.

JA: Back to TITLE issue...sould that be used to give title to live regions etc?

GR: Right now we are looking at page titling, but extensible so could be used to title areas
... It's a reusable way of annotating.
... Problem now is that <title> in <head> filled with placeholder since it only gets exposed in the chrome
... We want to set a F2F agenda today

GR should be JA

JA: CL thinks we should make some pre-F2F assignments
... Still mashing through 1-4 but we still have 5-12...
... So think we should go through them and see where gaps and proposals needed

CL: So where comments are?

JA: Looking at Wiki where we have UAAG2 Issues
... Ex. GL5 has no issues at the moment
... GL6 is all about APIs
... So I went through and scribbled prelim list...
... So JA=>GL5
... Cathy=>GL6?

CL: OK

<scribe> ACTION: JA to Look at GL5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<scribe> ACTION: CL to Look at GL6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<scribe> ACTION: KF to Look at GL7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action03]

CL: May add some high contrast issue stuff to GL7

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Look at GL8 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<scribe> ACTION: PP to Look at GL9 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<scribe> ACTION: GR to Look at GL10 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action06]

<scribe> ACTION: JA to Look at GL11 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action07]

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Look at GL12 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action08]

JA: Gap identification AND/OR proposals
... Also pls send to list
... Tentatively lets just schedule 1.5 hours per guideline...
... CL has to go a bit early on Tues.

PP: Have some meetings on those days so I'll send my schedule

JA: Some may run over and others go short

JR: F2F 9-17:30 both days

JA: 2,3,4 should get some time too

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Do agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action09]

2.3 Render conditional content (P1)

KF: Confusing...
... Does this still reflect overall intent of what we want UA's to do?
... Other words, is this what we want it to do or is it missing something
... My impression is that this is what we want, but maybe language needs cleanup

JA: So currently conditional content is hard to get at
... ex. alt
... Then there are fallbacks like noscript
... So this says even if there is a way to get conditional content

<oedipus> 3.6 needs a bullet to the effect: Allow configuration to allow simultaneous rendering of an image and its long descriptor

<oedipus> rationale: guidance for those with very limited viewport; assistance to those with congnative processing; provides guide through flow of image

JA: Conditional content: defn read by Jim

<AllanJ> JR: primary and secondary content,

<oedipus> FYI HTML WG wiki page: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueAltAttribute

KF: So if multiple versions sent to browser, browser should show access to all
... Example of flash app

GR: HTML working group has been discussing use cases where all cases are avaialble

JA: So is the problem just the language?

<oedipus> FYI HTML WG Wiki page: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ABetterAlt

CL: Don't think this lang requires access to all...e.g. C in place of D

KF: I think for end user we want ALL.

<oedipus> Image Equivalent Content - contains a lot of discussion of issues we are currently discussing in this telecon: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/LongdescRetention

JR: How would this look/sound?

KF: User agent might ... kind of like stylesheet...

CL: So settings...

FK: eg. I'd like this or this or both of these.

CL: Key could switcvh...

KF: e.g. image toggle
... Browser knows about what it detects

CL: Not technically impossible

KF: Users would play with it a bit

JA: So users wouldn't have to query

KF: Screen readers already do this.
... If you turn things off they can handle it

CL: So maybe "Doing More"

GR: ARIA could be used

KF: I think I have an idea of what people are looking for...I will rewrite

<scribe> ACTION: KF to New rewording of 2.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action10]

<AllanJ> JR: user should be able to define things by modality, give me flash, but have a key to render text if available...

<AllanJ> ...configure for permanant swaps for content, but allow swapping on demand

JA: Other things...2.4...

2.4 Allow time-independent interaction (P1)

JA: Thought there may be some AJAX issue...
... Think I am ok with this
... Live regions come into play so much - not sure we need to do anything here

CL: Will put link in IRC from Aaron Leventhal on issues

<cklaws> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/AJAX:WAI_ARIA_Live_Regions/API_Support

JA: Somewhere we need to have user override of "politeness"

GR: Very analagous to CSS "importance"

<scribe> ACTION: JA to Proposal on user override o author defined "politeness" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action11]

KF: But web techs are pushing envelope on what UA can know about...
... Maybe we need add a section on this content taking over UA roles

<oedipus> XProc: An XML Pipeline Language - http://www.w3.org/TR/xproc/ (LC closed yesterday)

JA: Sounds good

JR: Yes

GR: OK
... Trying to harmonize with HTML5 too...
... HTML5 has lots of UA guidance
... HTML5 will also have an authoring tool section

JA: We continue to have AJAX discussion and I've expressed some of these concerns to PF...it's certainly something we can put in the introduction...plus I'd like to get it into the guidelines

CL: With new events, live regions etc. we'll need to discuss in doc.

GR: PF asking HTML5 to use ARIA model
... But may break certain XML based implementations
... ARAI will be TR long before HMTL5

CL: ANd there is ARIA support in Firefox

GR: ANd Opera
... Am doing some QA on PF's ARIA examples

JA: We have many audio/video things scattered about....

<oedipus> GJR notes that he now has CVS access so can (after TPAC) mount the "until user agent..." page and the "UA Support" pages to be updated as we discussed in august

JA: This is another area where we can bogged down...maybe we can pull them out

<cklaws> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/ARIA:_Accessible_Rich_Internet_Applications/Relationship_to_HTML_FAQ

<AllanJ> JR: media is similar to Web 2.0 stuff, the browser does not know about the content and functionality...

KF: In some degree language reflective of time 1.0 was written

<AllanJ> e.g. using scripting and divs etc. to create a slider

KF: On one call we talked out thinking about other user agents
... Needs to stay...
... Maybe there are ways to clean them up.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: CL to Look at GL6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: GR to Look at GL10 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: JA to Look at GL11 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: JA to Look at GL5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JA to Proposal on user override o author defined "politeness" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action11]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Do agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Look at GL12 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to Look at GL8 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: KF to Look at GL7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: KF to New rewording of 2.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: PP to Look at GL9 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html#action05]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.128 (CVS log)
$Date: 2007/10/25 18:07:27 $

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Inferring ScribeNick: JR
Default Present: Gregory_Rosmaita, AllanJ, JR, pparente, Cathy_Laws, kford
Present: Gregory_Rosmaita AllanJ JR pparente Cathy_Laws kford

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<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting


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Got date from IRC log name: 25 Oct 2007
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/10/25-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: cl gr ja jr kf pp

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