mobileOK checker Task Force F2F, day 2

<dom> ScribeNick: roland

sean: agenda for today

Ruadhan, Jo status and test review

Ruadhan: update xslt implementation google doc
... do we have a review process for the tests?
... actually no line numbers are reported
... and come back to CSS discussion

srowen: if a test exist for a test, it is done

dom: if you have done your test, somebody else have to test if this is done

srowen: line number
... xerces and saxon discussion
... we can use best of both parsers, line numbers from saxon and xerces for the other stuff

Ruadhan: (shows a result example) how to display the line numbers in the doc?

srowen: this method is used in the CSS method
... walking through the tests and check where the position is needed

actually we don't see a example, but it's work

<srowen> TODO need to come up with working example for adding line number in XSL-based tests

Ruadhan: if external elements like background images are used in the CSS
... but are not referenced in the document
... we do not have this add to the page test

<dom> ... they'll get counted as part of the external resources

jo: also a problem if as example: .body is overwritten by body.body

srowen: we should mark this as a known issure

<srowen> TODO track the CSS cascade issue as a known issue

<dom> Lobo: Java Web Browser "Lobo (previously known as Warrior) is an open source web browser that is written completely in Java. It is undergoing active development with the aim to fully support HTML 4, Javascript and CSS2."

jo: discussing about CSS cascade and mobileOK doc
... CSS cascade handling is hard stuff

srowen: we should note this as an issue

ruadhan: (shows an example) background images that are defined but the class is not used are not loaded
... by Firefox

srowen: another agenda item: Test for tests
... all tests are located in a separate directory
... you do not have to write source code for tests
... for each test are directories where the testcases are located
... the primary test document is 'index.xhtml'
... if you want additional headers, use 'index.xhtml.headers'
... runs on localhost:8888
... if you use other files in the doc, place them in this directory
... the only tools that you need is java and ant
... if you want to build it, simply run 'ant'
... if you want to run the test, run 'ant test'
... when the test fails, the expected result isn't correctly

<srowen> TODO add ability to run one test at a time

<srowen> one test test that is

<dom> [generated URIs look like http://localhost:8080/StyleSheetsUseTest/2/index.xhtml FWIW]

srowen: thats it!

dom: we need cross tests

<dom> TODO: check that each warn/fail condition is minimally tested by our test suite

srowen: test java code is located in a separate directory

<srowen> TODO build a way save test run results as the golden test result

jo: could you document, how to test?

srowen: send it to the mailinglist, another todo

dom: how to document the expected result?

srowen: another todo

<srowen> TODO add document mapping tests to description and coniditon tested

all: good job (applause)

- pause -

jo: review where we are with external libraries
... jhove, utf-8 and other stuff

srowen: working with the utf8 validation, returning line numbers

abel: the css validation returns errors not in a exception

srowen: we should display the errors from the third party library

<abel> study about third parties error reporting -->http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dhbw7zt7_0f8w6bq

jo: [discussion about using external libraries]
... libraries are written for production mode and not to analyze errors

<srowen> think we are talking about 3 things:

<jo> TODO write up lessons learned in some form

<srowen> 1) bugs and faults in libraries that hurt us. actually I don't know that we were hit significantly by bugs

<srowen> 2) libraries don't give much attention to error cases, and they are usually concerned with the non-error case (e.g. a generic exception is thrown if anything goes wrong). Not a fault in the general sense but yes a problem for us

<srowen> I think we should file feature requests and so forth 'formally' for projects that might usefully improve their support for tools

<srowen> specifically should file bugs/requests against CSS validator

<srowen> 3) finally i would like to see any of our outstanding to-dos or bugs tracked in tracker rather than only in a document so that they are live, publicly visible, trackable, assignable

<srowen> ... but writing a doc in addition to all this never hurts too

srowen: going back to the agenda
... using the tracker system
... resolving issues and track features and bugs

<dom> Bugs recorded for the mobileOK checker

srowen: other agenda items?

<dom> Open and Pending Action Items for the checker TF

<nacho> ScribeNick: nacho

Review open actions from last F2F

dom: ACTION-505 ... done and info sent to the list

<dom> my mail on action 505

<dom> Sean's analysis of licenses

[discussion about licensing of the checker taking into account that it depends on 3rd party libraries]

<dom> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Aug/0000.html

<dom> and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Aug/0008.html

<dom> "we can indeed distribute the unmodified libraries provided we do so with the right license notice."

dom: ACTION-505 closed

Sean: legalOK and dotMobi
... any problem about contributing your work under W3C ?

jo: no

nacho: i do not think so... formal answer next Friday

roland: it is important to have the company's name shown and a disclaimer about responsabilities for the result of contributed code

sean: good point to be included in the docs (user and dev manuals)
... ACTION-509

<dom> see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Jul/0085.html re ACTION-509

dom: maybe copyright statement should change a little bit to include reference to companies contributing... a thing to be studied

sean: let's leave ACTION-509 open

<dom> I opened ACTION-542 to replace ACTION-509

sean: license of each external library being used is included in the project at the moment and also a COPYRIGHT.html
... with COPYRIGHT.html being actually the license... so i will rename it
... ACTION-510

miguel: the problem is solved... ACTION-510 to be closed

sean: ACTION-511

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Jun/0044.html

sean: ACTION-511 closed
... ACTION-512

roland: no XPath function available

sean: 02 ACTION-51201 closed
... ACTION-512
... ACTION-513
... done as seen in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007Jun/0046.html
... ACTION-513 to be closed

[sean summarizes details about current implementation about char encoding]

<dom> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xml-20060816/#sec-guessing

[discussion about XML Header and how its characters are represented in different encodings]

dom: my last URL was for XML prolog header Detection Without External Encoding Information

<dom> TODO fix character encoding detection in XML

ACTION-513 is closed with last TODO from Dom pending

sean: ACTION-514

<scribe> ... done

.ACTION-514 to be closed

sean: ACTION-515

abel: closed

sean: ACTION-516

dom: done

sean: ACTION-517
... effectively done

jo: caching when resolving DTDs?

miguel: CatalogResolved configured in properties file...

sean: good configuration and DTD caching done
... ACTION-518

[sean speaks about TesterConfiguration public class]

<dom> TODO Check what happens and decide what should happen when an unknown DTD is referenced

sean: TODO improve TesterConfiguration class
... ACTION-519

nacho: my POVs about the docs were commented yesterday... 1st drafts in 1 week or 2

[dom sets a new deadline substituting the one that nacho missed O:-) ]

Open Issues

sean: ISSUE-209

<dom> ACTION-543 created for perf analysis

lunch break

we are back!

<dom> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-mobileok-minutes.html

<dom> ScribeNick: ruadhan

<dom> Extracted Todos:

<dom> : complete test on extraneous characters

<dom> : add "about me" node (info about implementation libraries, versions, etc)

<dom> : missing namespaced in parsed/tidy document

<dom> : show whether the parsed document has been tidied

<dom> : encoding output not showing properly

<dom> : modify moki not to say "fail" for warns on CSS (distinguish errors from warnings)

<dom> : complete stylesheet_use to pick up the warnings

<dom> : omit <column> when column undetermined

<dom> : deal with inline stylesheets

<dom> : delete stylesheetssupporttest.xsl

<dom> : Cahce Control test (and others) should only be carried out on the final redirect of any particular request

<dom> : Results need to be labelled with the document that they are moaning about if it is not the primary doc

<dom> : deal properly with GET forms (i.e. include empty/default values for each form element)

<dom> : implementing CSS parsing for extraenous white space

<dom> need to come up with working example for adding line number in XSL-based tests

<dom> track the CSS cascade issue as a known issue

<dom> add ability to run one test at a time

sean: lets look at todos

<dom> : check that each warn/fail condition is minimally tested by our test suite

<dom> build a way save test run results as the golden test result

<dom> add document mapping tests to description and coniditon tested

<dom> write up lessons learned in some form

<dom> fix character encoding detection in XML

<dom> Check what happens and decide what should happen when an unknown DTD is referenced

<dom> improve TesterConfiguration class

sean: extraneous characters - lets treat as action item

<dom> ACTION-544 created

<dom> (to deal with white space)

<dom> ACTION-545 created for sean to deal with about-me

sean: "about information" sean will take as action
... missing namespace - track it as a bug

<dom> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=mobileOK%20Basic%20checker

<dom> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/

[all create bugzilla account]

sean: show whether parsed doc has been tidied - treat as bug
... encoding output - filed as bug
... css fail/warning issue - filed as bug

<jo> HONY SOYT QUI MAL EVENCE

<jo> Should be

<jo> Honi soit qui mal y pense

[further TODOs added added to bugzilla]

Roland: WRT checking form actions, there is an issue with multiple submit buttons in forms

<dom> [I added the link to our bug lists from the checker task force home page]

jo: WRT to checking state of warn/fail conditions in test suite - hold off until next draft is completed

<dom> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__all__&product=mobileOK+Basic+checker&content=

sean: we've alotted todos, and we still need to complete tests
... miletsones - work towards alpha release, fix any major bugs
... doesn't need to be perfect but should be ready for conference in November
... rough alpha release in 5 weeks, early-mid October

dom: after alpha we should think about a simple web interface so we can demonstrate

<dom> Created ACTION-548 - Set up simple web interface on top of Java library for Alpha release [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2007-09-12].

sean: is this a realistic timeline?

miguel: still the issue of https certification

sean: i propose we put something out by October 12th
... all tests written, at least one test case for each condition, and major bugs are addressed
... just needs to be respectable
... there is a conference 4 weeks after this date that we should have something nice for

<srowen> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Release 1.0 alpha on October 12. All tests implemented, with minimal regression tests, all P1 bugs fixed

<srowen> RESOLUTION: Release 1.0 alpha on October 12. All tests implemented, with minimal regression tests, all P1 bugs fixed

<srowen> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Release 1.0 beta on Nov. 13 at Mobile Internet World. All P1 bugs fixed. More regression tests implemented by this point. Alpha web interface available at validator.w3.org/mobile/...

<srowen> RESOLUTION: Release 1.0 beta on Nov. 13 at Mobile Internet World. All P1 bugs fixed. More regression tests implemented by this point. Alpha web interface available at validator.w3.org/mobile/...

sean: maybe tack on day at next BPWG meeting

jo: that might be tough

sean: let's play it by ear
... maybe next F2F in late January
... any other issues or concerns?